Important news concerning our digital services

[tiftif]

@Johnny256 I agree with you on the legs and root thing… but planned obsolescence is ery frustrating (especially in this case for those having bought an Ambit for instance, just a few years ago, or even this year) and definitely not very “roots-friendly”…

[freeheeler]

@tiftif
I agree, too. The fun about the sport itself remains! But for me it is more motivating to go on evening trainingrides when there is a proper tool for analysis.
I also only changed to Suunto (Ambit3) one year ago and would like to stick to it as the alternative is a big compromize!
And I don’t want a fancy smart watch…

[tiftif]

@Navigator said in Important news concerning our digital services:

@antpoli said in Important news concerning our digital services:

@lhpopov I fully agree with you. This move from suunto sounds to be betrayed. Ambit is a wonderful platform (I’m so happy with the HW of my ambit 2S 6 years old) that will become unusable in less than 2 years… and I feel in future suunto will “put on unusable old watchs”…
I think I will switch to comptetition (garmin very probably) in next 2-3 months

Just have. As there’s been no feedback from Suunto on all the various comments made on the forum I ‘decided to bite the bullet’ and just bought a Garmin 735xt and retire my Ambit 2. The Garmin doesn’t feel as robust as the Ambit and only gives about 12 hours use in ‘normal’ GPS mode with 1 second data recording, but, its half he weight and bulk and the Navigation feature is far better as the Vibration Alert works well when approaching waypoints or going off course. I’ve also got an Ambit 3 Peak, I recon the pinnacle of backpack watches, but if there’s no Suunto web interface that will be retired too.
All so sad as love my 3 Peak but you have to consider the whole package which Suunto seem intent on destroying

I was looking at this one too, unfortunately 18h of battery life is a bit low for a mountain use…

[ssoloway]

@gest83
After years struggling with using DM5 on my Suunto Zoop dive computer, I gave up and began to use Subsurface, a free open-source program, to upload Zoop data to my PC. The only drawback is that it uses a different, seemingly more concervative, model, so on deep dives it sometimes says I got into decompression even though my Zoop never showed that.

[Christoph Graf von Dettling]

This is a terrible move. Would you do taxes on your Phone? Write an essay on your phone? No. It is way easier to work on a computer for such detailed tasks and no, Training Peaks is not a worthy substitute. I upgraded to the Spartan Ultra because I like the watch and I really like the Movescount platform. Had I known that Movescount was going down, I would have signed on to Polar. Dark days!

[Kathi Baird]

For me this is a horrible move since I do not own a smart phone, therefore, I will lose all of my workouts unless I go to the expense of getting a smart phone which I don’t want or upgrade my IPod or tablet. Any way I look at this it is an unnecessary cost for users like me.

[jthomi]

See the link here under your quote, please vote there for a web version, the more the better…

@Kathi-Baird said in Important news concerning our digital services:

For me this is a horrible move since I do not own a smart phone, therefore, I will lose all of my workouts unless I go to the expense of getting a smart phone which I don’t want or upgrade my IPod or tablet. Any way I look at this it is an unnecessary cost for users like me.

[radlwadl]

There’s a facebook group for selling/buying used skimountaineering race equipement (https://www.facebook.com/groups/304300433096554/?ref=group_header) in the German speeking area (mostly Austria and Germany, a few members in Italy in Suisse).
Whenever sport watches are sold it’s a Suunto.
Just as an information…

[freeheeler]

@radlwadl
I noticed this on swiss second hand trading pages, too. The prices are dropping as more and more Ambit’s are thrown on the market… Of course they don’t tell you to what competitor they change…

Let’s hope Suunto wins a lot of new happy Ambit users, Suunto supports them properly and does not spoil them with their first Suunto experience.
I know people they would never go back to Suunto. I don’t give up the hope that Suunto is fixing their lack of communication soon. PLUS the proper support of Ambit’s and a Movescount-like new web interface.

[radlwadl]

@TELE-HO
Still (only) one year left…
I see also a lot of up2date Suunto watches, not only old Ambits on the 2nd hand pages. As I expect to be forced buying a new watch for beeing able to handle the data, all these offers don’t increase my trust in Suunto.

[Linda Benn]

I am not “glued” to a cell phone like most folks these days! My phone is for emergency purposes only and does not have enough memory/space to add the suunto app. I currently use my main home computer to access all my data. Will I be able to continue to do this?

[tiftif]

@radlwadl said in Important news concerning our digital services:

There’s a facebook group for selling/buying used skimountaineering race equipement (https://www.facebook.com/groups/304300433096554/?ref=group_header) in the German speeking area (mostly Austria and Germany, a few members in Italy in Suisse).
Whenever sport watches are sold it’s a Suunto.
Just as an information…

The rats are leaving the ship, as we say in France (not sure the expression exists in english)… another sign for whoever could be interrested at Suunto’s.

[pescacebesforum]

@tiftif Not sure in English, but is the same in Spanish

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

@radlwadl

Perhaps I am seeing something wrong.

I joined this group that you mentioned https://www.facebook.com/groups/304300433096554/?ref=group_header and browsed all posts from now and back to January 16th that this announcement was made.

I saw for sale :
2 Spartan
1 S9
2-3 Ambits
1 traverse
2-3 Polars
2-3 Garmins

And one request for Searching for A3P Saphire for 999euro ? (what?)

What am I missing here or am I confused about your point?

[radlwadl]

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos
OK - not every watch sold on this 2nd hand market is a Suunto, but now I got your awareness
And I’m still of the opinion that most of them are Suunto’s.

It seems that I summed the skimo-group’s offers with the one in https://www.facebook.com/groups/166397423552689/?ref=group_header - which is a group for mountain gear in general.

Browsing the mountain gear group, I see the oldest this year’s announcement for a watch dating to March, 24th. Back to that date I see:

• Suunto Spartan Sport Black HR
• Suunto Spartan Sport Wrist HR All Black
• Suunto Spartan Sport Writst HR Baro
• POLAR RS100 (which is a HR monitor only, and IMHO can’t be compared here)
• Garmin Fenix 3
• Apple Watch Series 4 (hmm, do we want to compare this with an Ambit2?)
• Suunto Ambit 3 Peak
• SUUNTO Traverse Sapphire Black Outdoor GPS-Uhr
• SUUNTO Ambit3 Sport
• Suunto X3 HR
• Suunto traverse alpha

This sums up to seven Suunto watches, one Garmin (one Apple, one Polar)…

Kindly excuse, but when you did the effort to browse the skimo gear group, why didn’t you note the exact results? “2-3 Ambits”, “2-3 Garmins”, “2-3 Polars” - 2 or 3?
And what models did you find?
As far as I see, the two Polars are M400 models - a simple HR monitor. Do you really want to take them into account?
Nevertheless you’ve got 6 (or 7) Suuntos on the one hand and 2 or 3 Garmins (which is in my opinion the biggest opponent) on the other. With the simple Polar M400 HR monitors the 6-7 Suuntos face 4-6 other watches. Suunto is still in the lead or at least equal to all the others.

Using the skimo-gear groups search function, and searching for either Polar, Garmin or Suunto I find

• 2 Polar M400
• 1 Garmin Forerunner
• Suunto Spartan Sport
• Suunto Baro 9
• Suunto Spartan Sport Wrist HR Baro
• SUUNTO Spartan Trainer Wrist Hr
• Suunto traverse alpha
• Suunto Ambit 3 Peak

I know, that this is not an accurate 2nd hand market analysis, there maybe double posts in both the groups, maybe my Facebook Algorithm filters different than yours and there are plenty of other 2nd hand markets in the web. Perhaps Suunto sold much more watches than any other competitor, so it would be clear that Suuntos are offered more often in 2nd hand markets than the other manufacturers.
It’s just a spotlight to two 2nd hand groups in the web.
I posted this, because at last weekend’s Mezzalama skimo race we had a discussion with some athletes from Italy, sitting on the same table at the “Pasta-Party”. They lost trust in Suunto, too. And below of one of the Suunto offers I read the comment, that it seems that that only Suunto watches are offered.

There’s more than only negative vibrations out there when talks come to Suunto. People are angry and are looking for alternatives. That’s my point.

[Markus Hauhia]

A smart phone app is a useful companion for a watch, but it just doesn’t cut it for any serious use. That’s just an inherent feature of a small touch screen. I don’t do my work on my smart phone, I don’t do taxes on my smart phone, I don’t use spreadsheets or write documents on my smart phone, I don’t watch movies or game on my smart phone. A proper desktop app or a web-based application is a must. I disliked how limited the Movescount app was, but at least there was a pretty decent web-version that I could use. If the current iteration of Suunto App is barely usable for someone like me, who just uses the basic features, it probably doesn’t serve any purpose for more serious users or professional athletes. Making a service worse to save money does not seem like a sustainable business model to me.

Considering that it is the smart watches with their rudimentary sports tracking features that are eating into Suunto’s market share, it would seem obvious for Suunto to focus on customer retention and making their software more feature rich and professional, rather than going to the completely opposite direction.

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

@radlwadl Sorry I did not search I just went and browsed back to jan 16. I was wondering how severe is that problem you mention (about people selling Suuntos on that group only)

As quoted here https://forum.suunto.com/post/26403

Whenever sport watches are sold it’s a Suunto.
Just as an information…

And then that sparked the rats leaving the ship

To my findings I dont see anything that relates to that (in the particular facebook group) but Ill pass don’t want to start a argument/debate here.

My role here is rather to tranfer your feedback so I do need to double check facts.

[Saketo Nemo]

@radlwadl said in Important news concerning our digital services:

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos
OK - not every watch sold on this 2nd hand market is a Suunto, but now I got your awareness
And I’m still of the opinion that most of them are Suunto’s.

It seems that I summed the skimo-group’s offers with the one in https://www.facebook.com/groups/166397423552689/?ref=group_header - which is a group for mountain gear in general.

Browsing the mountain gear group, I see the oldest this year’s announcement for a watch dating to March, 24th. Back to that date I see:

• Suunto Spartan Sport Black HR
• Suunto Spartan Sport Wrist HR All Black
• Suunto Spartan Sport Writst HR Baro
• POLAR RS100 (which is a HR monitor only, and IMHO can’t be compared here)
• Garmin Fenix 3
• Apple Watch Series 4 (hmm, do we want to compare this with an Ambit2?)
• Suunto Ambit 3 Peak
• SUUNTO Traverse Sapphire Black Outdoor GPS-Uhr
• SUUNTO Ambit3 Sport
• Suunto X3 HR
• Suunto traverse alpha

This sums up to seven Suunto watches, one Garmin (one Apple, one Polar)…

Kindly excuse, but when you did the effort to browse the skimo gear group, why didn’t you note the exact results? “2-3 Ambits”, “2-3 Garmins”, “2-3 Polars” - 2 or 3?
And what models did you find?
As far as I see, the two Polars are M400 models - a simple HR monitor. Do you really want to take them into account?
Nevertheless you’ve got 6 (or 7) Suuntos on the one hand and 2 or 3 Garmins (which is in my opinion the biggest opponent) on the other. With the simple Polar M400 HR monitors the 6-7 Suuntos face 4-6 other watches. Suunto is still in the lead or at least equal to all the others.

Using the skimo-gear groups search function, and searching for either Polar, Garmin or Suunto I find

• 2 Polar M400
• 1 Garmin Forerunner
• Suunto Spartan Sport
• Suunto Baro 9
• Suunto Spartan Sport Wrist HR Baro
• SUUNTO Spartan Trainer Wrist Hr
• Suunto traverse alpha
• Suunto Ambit 3 Peak

I know, that this is not an accurate 2nd hand market analysis, there maybe double posts in both the groups, maybe my Facebook Algorithm filters different than yours and there are plenty of other 2nd hand markets in the web. Perhaps Suunto sold much more watches than any other competitor, so it would be clear that Suuntos are offered more often in 2nd hand markets than the other manufacturers.
It’s just a spotlight to two 2nd hand groups in the web.
I posted this, because at last weekend’s Mezzalama skimo race we had a discussion with some athletes from Italy, sitting on the same table at the “Pasta-Party”. They lost trust in Suunto, too. And below of one of the Suunto offers I read the comment, that it seems that that only Suunto watches are offered.

There’s more than only negative vibrations out there when talks come to Suunto. People are angry and are looking for alternatives. That’s my point.

I am also a ski mountaineer, among the many sports I practice. Among my friends, if we talk about those who run, suunto and garmin they content their wrists at around 50%, when we talk about ski mountaineering, mountaineering and mountain in general, where navigation and reliability are a fundamental component, suunto is the most popular watch on the wrists of my mountain friends. This at least for me.

As for the negative vibrations, it seems to me quite obvious that switching from a web-based system (Movescount) and App, to one based only on the App (Suunto App), cannot make us happy. But they are chat from Bar. Who uses Suunto for years knows well how much the company holds to its customers. I myself, who first requested the Suunto App web counter on this forum, are CERTAIN not to be disappointed. I already know that Suunto will not betray my expectations, precisely because they are those of many.

[Brad_Olwin]

@radlwadl I would add the following as well. In Europe there are far more Suuntos than Garmin watches (my anecdotal experience from one trail race in France) while in the US most are wearing Garmin. My browsing shows (I did not quantify) more Garmins for sale in the US market place near me than Suuntos just because of the sheer number of each. So if you want to get quantitative and realistic about numbers they should be based on the percentage of brand ownership and not assuming the same numbers are distributed for each brand. My day job is a scientist and I do have to be concerned how quantification is done.

[freeheeler]

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos
I must honestly say that I absolutely don’t envy you for your tasks from Suunto.
I have read some topics and posts and I have the impression that Suunto is desperately trying to calm their customers with the help of moderators.
I’m not convinced if this is the right strategy, but how should I know, I’m a design engineer and did not study economics or business admin at all… it’s up to other people to run companies successfully and make sure they have happy customers.
But I am not sure if passing on the impression and the mood in a forum is a very scientific way for product development. Maybe Suunto is doing it differently and I don’t know.
To be honest I hope they do. But here’s the main word: don’t know!
I haven’t heard of a straight forward strategy and customer information for a while and that’s what makes customers angry.
I can imagine that a good handful of people decide for a Garmin as per now they don’t know where Suunto is ending up. Of course you can pick a third party web interface for analysis but that is absolutely not what you expect when you pay 700,- CHF for a watch.

I did not do second hand market analysis either, but it is suspicious that not only I see this tendency and not only on one second hand page.

I said this some times in this forum: I WISH that Suunto is doing the right thing and will have tons of happy customers eventually (also Ambit users!!). But per today, we don’t know…