Important news concerning our digital services
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@Brad_Olwin said in Important news concerning our digital services:
while I may not agree with the decisions made I think it will work out well in the end. MC was not the best analysis platform IMHO and I would rather see resources ported to hardware and enhanced third party integration. So I am not entirely unhappy with the change. I trust I will adapt and find as I have through the other transitions that the long term plan was well justified and worked.
I agree that users will have no choice but to adapt - provided the app is polished to a workable state.
There is a clear roadmap where the Suunto App would become mandatory for data download and watch customization, workouts will be uploaded to the Sports Tracker back-end (with Suunto modifications), and user data would be downloadable into third-party websites for analysis.
However this is a different kind of transition. The previous ones were about expanding the services, but this one is about winding down a service.
Apparently the decision has been made to scale down the service by discontinuing the Movescount service as a whole. This includes the web interface/front-end, the desktop sync applications (Moveslink for MoveStick Mini, Moveslink2, Suuntolink), the mobile Movescount app, the Azure back-end, and the user data storage.
This has consequences of reduced development and support resources for the outgoing Movescount platform. Unfortunately most users here do not seem to grasp these coming changes.
This is where I disagree with your post in this thread, as well as similar posts demanding or implying future availability of large-scale ‘pie in the sky’ features - which is not realistic to expect from this ‘new Suunto’ undergoing a scaling down and reducing the scope of software development efforts.
Surely Suunto will listen to complaints, though mostly to come up with a more efficient communication by addressing common concerns about the transition and convincing users to remain on the new Suunto App platform with their current (and most preferably, future) Suunto gear. The transition announcement as it was recently communicated still lacks important details and does not provide a clear feature roadmap for the Suunto App, if there is any.
whether I like it or not I have been through many Suunto transitions. I doubt that Suunto is planning to end its dominance.
Surely they are not planning to end the brand, just to better leverage existing assets. I think there are several key points of their plan:
- Offering mobile-only Sports Tracker-derived Sunnto App for data sync - to lower costs for web server infrastructure and processor time
- Relocating Movescount users and workout data into Sports Tracker - and automatically joining new Suunto customers to the Sports Tracker community
- Offering Sports Tracker users direct support for Suunto gear - AFAIK direct support for Garmin and Polar is one of the most requested features for the Sports Tracker
- Suunto users needing advanced features can connect to other services through a simplified Cloud API (with direct export of .FIT/.GPX files) - same opportunities offered for Sports Tracker users
- Mature and fully functional mobile app - important for developing markets where mobile phones have much larger penetration than the PC
Now execution of this plan could use some better consideration. For example I cannot really gather why it didn’t occur to them that all current phones have USB2 ports which could be used for direct cable connection to the older Ambit/Ambit2 watches.
So, to answer your question, maybe I cannot grasp what is happening or alternatively, I have been through many transitions with Suunto, I have had AMAZING customer service.
That’s very nice of them to offer this level of support in the USA, though it’s not directly related to the discussion on the future of Suunto’s new service platform.
my Vector when Suunto released it did not have a web app
my X10 was not compatible with STraM (Suunto Training Manager)…
I was thrilled when Movescount was started as I could finally use a Mac…
I knew there was ancient life prior to Movescount but AFAIK it was obliterated by an asteroid impact approximately 65 million workouts ago… looks like some species were recreated in a biology lab on a distant island in the CaribbeansColoradans
I’m probably spoiled by having the good thing right from the beginning, since my Quest came with Movescount support right away. This service was the primary reason I’ve chosen Suunto over other brands, though I agree some parts of the web site were not up-to-date.
Desktop applications sure could use some better engineering though - for example Moveslink2 just kept interfering with wake timers in Windows 10 to the point of disallowing hybrid sleep mode entirely and Suunto was never able to fully fix it. Also lot of sync problems between GPS Pod tracks and watch data, which were imported as two separate workouts so you had to merge them into one, and errors could only be fixed by referring to online product support through a very arcane MySuunto.com system. So not exactly a flawless experience on the software side.
I think many users here would agree that Suunto offers top-class hardware - especially with the latest Spartan, Spartan Sport Wrist HR and Suunto 9 series (and vastly improved Bluetooth HR belt, very important for me to cover winter activities) which have everything you should expect from premium sport watches, maybe except an always-on OLED screen - but their application software could use much, much better engineering effort.
This is why there are reservations regarding the promise to substantially improve Suunto App in just one year and half.
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@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in Important news concerning our digital services:
I have read every post and
thanks for doing so Dimitrios!
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@tefteulf said in Important news concerning our digital services:
the Light Bulb Conspiracy
wouldn’t go so far to accuse Suunto of having ‘planned obsolescence’ in mind - if so they could and would have built their hardware different e.g. to artificial limiting the useful lifetime for an consumer (like this lightbulb theory suggest), if you read here through the forum lot of comments of user from Ambit1/2, T series, Quest devices… that are still working fine today and in use… don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Suunto made the right call on Jan.15 in setting this devices obsolete and not longer supported in summer 2020, I’m against this probably same as you - just don’t think they had planend obsolescence in mind from the beginning…
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@DmitryKo OK. That is humorous. Have to save that one! Not convinced Moveslink will go away as it is the only way to update. We know MC web and app will go away. In about 1.5y I will assess the hardware/software status of manufacturers and make a decision. No need to make that decision now.
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@Brad_Olwin that is exactly it.
The fact that all of us are now uncertain and understand that in the back of our heads that we have to make a decision sooner or later.
This strategy introduced a great element of uncertainty.
We are less certain that suunto is moving to a direction that we would like (not that suunto has any obligation to do so).
Maybe you will wait 18 months but the signs are already here. It has been already (almost) 18 months since the introduction of the app and the stop of the investment in MC.
Let’s load up web MC via mobile browser to properly look at last days workout now… -
I think I don’t want to wait (one month or one year, who knows) to know if my new Ambit 3 Peak will have full support in Suunto App to load routes. I’m returning it to vendor (and I think I will order another Fenix 3 as there is no SUUNTO that matches my needs: big screen, NO touch screen)
It’s a pity.
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touch is not so terrible and even initially I did not like the idea. is true that to get some information in clock mode you are obliged to use it, but when in standby it is disabled. Even during the activity, if you want, you can deactivate it
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If you look at the finance situation of the Suunto company its quite understandable that something must be done! The recepie: downsize and refine and streamline!
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@Saketo-Nemo said in Important news concerning our digital services:
touch is not so terrible and even initially I did not like the idea. is true that to get some information in clock mode you are obliged to use it, but when in standby it is disabled. Even during the activity, if you want, you can deactivate it
It depends
When you’re running at the mountain and it’s raining, but you need to switch between screens (map <> distance/time). If you block screen/buttons to avoid water activates touch screen, then you can’t use those same buttons to move from map to time/distance.
That’s the behavior I remember from my first Spartan (returned due to that)
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@Luis-Andés-Olmedo now you can scroll between displays when screen and buttons are locked (using the middle button like in Ambit series). And also you can turn off the touch screen for the activity itself (currently unavailable for Spartans but I think it’s just a firmware bug - hopefully will be fixed). So the touchscreen is not so problematic even if I think nobody would complain if it wasn’t there.
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@tefteulf said in Important news concerning our digital services:
figures from https://www.kauppalehti.fi/yritykset/yritys/suunto+oy/01010841
Azure cloud costs alone can be on the order of several million USD per year, depending on hardware configuration required.
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@Zdeněk-Hruška that’s good news, thank you!
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@Zdeněk-Hruška I complained many times. Because of the touch screen Suunto decided that only 3 buttons are enough, and that causes usability issues and limits functionality. One example is inability to activate backlight when touch is disabled (it is disabled during an activity by default on S9). I would strongly prefer 5 buttons to touch sensitive screen which I think is a gimmick.
And this seems to be the new trend. Instead of adding really useful core features Suunto invested heavily in gimmick features that appeal to a different segment of users (casual fitness crowd) but don’t likely sell more Suunto watches because there are plenty of competitor watches that are less expensive and more feature rich.
I think Suunto would be more successful if they stayed focused on their niche and invested only in core features that appeal to typical Suunto users - trail and ultra runners, hikers, mount bikers, climbers, backcountry skiers, etc.
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@silentvoyager You can enable backlight by holding a tiny bit the middle button even if touch is off or hold longer the lower button.
However, I bet you saw the watch had 3 buttons before you bought it (plus a touchscreen).
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@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos, yes you mentioned that already. That is too subtle and I can’t do that when running. I started toggling the backlight via the menu instead. But that isn’t the point.
The view button is also gone, and I think it was quite functional on Ambit. The lack of the view button may be the reason why Suunto didn’t implement waypoint details view on Spartan and S9. I don’t see any other reason because it already has a very similar UI for POI navigation.
Honestly I didn’t pay much attention to having only 3 buttons when buying S9. I didn’t realize I was really missing the extra buttons until I used the watch for a few weeks.
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@silentvoyager
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@silentvoyager I know I also think that the touchscreen is there just because it’s cool and it has almost no added value for users (I use it to scroll through menu but sometimes I use buttons as well and unfortunately it’s usually even faster than touch).
However I don’t mind it. I think Suunto balanced touch/button controls quite well. It would be better if there was a possibility to turn the touchscreen completely off for those cases when you are somewhere outside especially in rainy conditions when the touch becomes an issue.
And the backlight - I think it would be awesome if there was some faster way how to turn it on/off even in toggle mode. Something like long middle button press and you could choose if you want to access options or to turn on the light. Something similar like they did with the buttons luck (if you hold the lower button for longer time).
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@silentvoyager said in Important news concerning our digital services:
@Zdeněk-Hruška
I think Suunto would be more successful if they stayed focused on their niche and invested only in core features that appeal to typical Suunto users - trail and ultra runners, hikers, mount bikers, climbers, backcountry skiers, etc.Fully agree! I think SUUNTO is moving to a new niche (and Garmin must be very happy with that as Fenix covers almost everything we had in Ambits)
