Important news concerning our digital services
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Bernard London, Sunnto movescount and planned obsolescence
The term “planned obsolescence” was introduced by Bernard London in his paper
from 1932 “Ending the Depression Through Planned Obsolescence”. By marking
everything produced with a lifetime (determined by the goverment). The consumer
accepts that the product is obsolete after its lifetime has expired. After the
expiration date, the product is not to be used by the consumer and must be
handed over to the goverment for a small amunt of money in return.So an idea from the depression in the thirties, could it be of relevance today?
Have a look at the documentary: “The Light Bulb Conspiracy” -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdh7_PA8GZU
The programme was aired in 2010 and of many just considered as a ‘conspiracy’,
its now 2019, is the documentary still relevant? For example, The controversy over
the short lifespan of Apple’s IPOD’s battery and the associated legal processes
that followed are covered.Could we learn something from the “the Light Bulb Conspiracy” and the way that
Sunnto now decides the fait of the older Suunto watches: Ambit, Ambit2, M-serie,
T-serie, Quest?Yes, I own a very beloved Ambit2 watch!
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Will Suunto come shortly with a new update after all the feedback of their customers?
Or did suunto say goodbye to their customers already? -
Just bought (4 days ago) a new Ambit 3 Peak looking for its amazing battery, reliability and no-color display. I’ve had Ambits 2 run and 3 run, and I just sold a Fenix 3 (because of the color display).
Now Suunto says the new app will not allow me to load routes to my watch, which is the only functionality I need in a sports watch.Seriously thinking on returning the peak to the vendor…
Sorry for my English, I’m from Spain.
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@Luis-Andés-Olmedo I’m actually in the process of returning a Spartan Ultra. Even though it’s listed as fully supported, the idea of not knowing the state of things down the line has put me off. Always been really happy with my Ambits. Hopefully this is premeture on my part and I’ll be tempted back at some point down the line.
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@be1t0n said in Important news concerning our digital services:
@Luis-Andés-Olmedo I’m actually in the process of returning a Spartan Ultra. Even though it’s listed as fully supported, the idea of not knowing the state of things down the line has put me off. Always been really happy with my Ambits. Hopefully this is premeture on my part and I’ll be tempted back at some point down the line.
I’m also at that point! Suunto is supposed to support those functionalities as they are listening us but… what if not? I may have a wonderful watch that I can’t use for trail running (as I usually follow unknow routes)
Thank you for your comment.
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@photosheikh said in Important news concerning our digital services:
Extremely disappointing to hear the discontinuation of MovesCount.
I purchased my Ambit2 in 2013 and it has been my go to solution for recording and planning routes. My Ambit2 actually saved me from calling a helicopter rescue at the summit of Ben Nevis, when I activated the “Track Back” feature that guided me back to safety and below the snowline. Ever since that incident, I have had huge admiration for my Ambit2 and wear it with pride.
Since learning of Suunto’s announcement to stop supporting my watch it has been a great disappointment.
I need to upload GPX routes to my watch and download route data.
The worldwide Suunto community NEEDS an offline software solution for legacy Ambit watches.
And, as you, our colleague is writing, there are a lot of Suunto happy customers with old watches (Ambit 1 & 2) which are performing as ambassadors of Suunto outhere, and while they doesn’t buy a new suunto watch for years (because their own is running ok), they promote new sales for the company… Or make the worst marketing campaign for them. The best you treat users, the best they’ll reply.
Folks, the conversation is not here. I think nobody could understand or fully agree this Suunto news, so now, it’s time for a Suunto movement… even I believe confidence from clients is totally injured for a few years.
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I remember discussions in this forum about pushing Suunto to reveal part of their plan (aka a roadmap) as soon as possible.
That’s what they did (partially) with Movescount, and now we see the results : a lot of (IMHO) extreme reactions whereas there’s still 1.5Y ahead to complete Suunto digital ecosystem to make it work and efficient to all.That’s great to react, and for what it’s worth I fully agree with the negative reaction for Ambit and current SA/movescount comparison, but again this is a heads up, not an anouncement of how things will be tomorrow…
We are (were) all Suunto believers here, so don’t you think Suunto wanted a live and direct reaction from their customers to understand what to do next and where they should put their effort? Rather than leaving us with a “this is how it is and that’s it”?
I think the neagtive reactions are multuple, loud and have been heard, so now let’s focus on helping the development of SA, suggesting great features, and waiting for the next comm from Suunto to react again… And in 1.5y it will still be time to drop Suunto if factually the SA ecosystem will not be up to the task.
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@jean-william-cousin said in Important news concerning our digital services:
I think the neagtive reactions are multuple, loud and have been heard, so now let’s focus on helping the development of SA, suggesting great features, and waiting for the next comm from Suunto to react again… And in 1.5y it will still be time to drop Suunto if factually the SA ecosystem will not be up to the task.
I understand and partially agree your positive POV. But I must remember you that the 1.5 years to MC death are, in some of the users who -me included- are testing SA from the start something totally different. For us it means: “Just 1.5 years and stay just with that awful beta app? Are you kidding me?”
You just need to check that in about 1.5 years of developing (including the work into the shadow priorly to the first beta), they just have a Sports-Tracker (13 years-old) app modified to upload workouts from the watch. Just that. And the app still does a bad job on that assignment (bad altitudes, bad data, bad graphs…). I know it has a custom sport design mode (but, sincerely, it’s just a copy&paste from the MC source… for sure). There is another feature added during this time: maps (but it was implemented on a tiny mode, as for example: you still can’t export GPX from the app, or select a f*cking file from the device).
The app still needs a HARD HARD WORK to implement basic functionalities as:
- calendar and planned trainings
- advanced trainings
- advanced graph visualizations (pan, zoom, merge data…)
Those are really important features and, AFAIK, it’s too an expensive and hard work to do. Pretty no one could rely that work would be made in just 1.5 years, because, sincerely, I don’t rely Suunto would hire a dozen developers to do that job. And if they were interested on do that, they would have done it before this press release.
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Hello everyone! First time posting here as I literally just purchased an Ambit3 Run directly from Suunto last week. It is scheduled to arrive tomorrow. I spent a few months researching GPS watches and am somewhat bewildered with this news. I really never used with Movescount or the Suunto app but have to say I like having a web browser-based app. I’m currently using Garmin Connect for my Vivoactive 1, and sometimes my trusty 2007 Forerunner 305.
Okay, so I really don’t use as much data as most here, all I want it to see my distance, time and pace/moving pace. I could deal with only have a smartphone app as this is pretty basic data. Will the Suunto app provide this basic information?
I really want to keep the Ambit3 Run, but am a little afraid with reading all of these threads. My second choice was the Polar 430 and am debating just returning the Ambit3 Run when it arrives tomorrow and just getting that. I also toyed with the idea of having a new battery put in my 305, but it’s $99 and the Ambit3 Run was only $149 which is such a bargain for such an amazing watch!
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Hi there all!
it’s been a week since the news arrived.
I have collected all the feedback from there, literally every comment and sentiment and have created reports
I can assure you, your words not from only here (this thread) but from all the forum (I have read every post and includes the issues/critic for the Suunto app) are reaching the eyes/ears that they should reach.
Some people ask why no response from Suunto.
Suunto cannot in 1 week (5 working days) collect all the feedback, adapt, translate to all the languages and come back to you.
However, I am just now stating that phase 1 of collecting feedback is done.
I will be personally be updating you with any news I have, independent to language, the sooner I can. Please don’t push for news or updates, it makes no sense atm.
Thanks!
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@tefteulf I would like not to jump into assumptions or conspiracies. Suunto is a small company consisted by people as well.
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Ambit 3 with HR belt currently £125 on Wiggle (List price £310). Anyone surprised?
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The announcement about movescount does not give good clarity on future support of basic compatible products. Will the Suunto App eventually have the ability for custom sports mode and route transfer for the Ambit 3 (Peak and Run), similar to Spartan and S9? Thanks
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@MarkG said in Important news concerning our digital services:
Ambit 3 with HR belt currently £125 on Wiggle (List price £310). Anyone surprised?
It’s not that simple - https://skinflint.co.uk/?phist=1158127&age=183 ( https://geizhals.eu/?phist=1158127&age=183 )
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The forces of the market has now begun, on the Swedish site "blocket "offering:
Suunto Ambit + Ant HR, 40 EUR
Suunto Ambit 3 Run, 60 EUR
Suunto Ambit 2, 50 EUR
Suunto Ambit 3 sport, 70 EUR
Suunto Ambit 2 Sapphire HR, 40 EUR
Suunto Ambit 3 Sport, 120 EUR
Suunto Ambit 3 Sport, 82.5 EUR
Suunto Ambit 2 White, 70 EUR*
Suunto Abit 3 Peak, 150 EUR*
Suunto peak ambit3 black HR, 200 EUR*- = advertised before 1/1-19
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@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos Thanks so much for collecting our responses and forwarding to the appropriate parties. Please keep us posted if you hear anything from Suunto!
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@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos
How will you support those of us who do not have an Apple or Android smartphone and rely on a website to link with the watch? -
@tefteulf said in Important news concerning our digital services:
The forces of the market has now begun, on the Swedish site "blocket "offering:
Suunto Ambit + Ant HR, 40 EUR
Suunto Ambit 3 Run, 60 EUR
Suunto Ambit 2, 50 EUR
Suunto Ambit 3 sport, 70 EUR
Suunto Ambit 2 Sapphire HR, 40 EUR
Suunto Ambit 3 Sport, 120 EUR
Suunto Ambit 3 Sport, 82.5 EUR
Suunto Ambit 2 White, 70 EUR*
Suunto Abit 3 Peak, 150 EUR*
Suunto peak ambit3 black HR, 200 EUR*- = advertised before 1/1-19
as far as I understand these are prices for used watches. I bought a used Ambit 3R for my wife a few weeks (middle of december 2018 - so before any messages concerning major changes) ago in a decent state (without HR belt) for 45€ here in Germany. So I think the prices are still rather high for used Suuntos. - I would not understand this as a reaction of the market … not now … but I expect that there will be no shortage of used Suuntos in the next months …
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@Brad_Olwin said in Important news concerning our digital services:
while I may not agree with the decisions made I think it will work out well in the end. MC was not the best analysis platform IMHO and I would rather see resources ported to hardware and enhanced third party integration. So I am not entirely unhappy with the change. I trust I will adapt and find as I have through the other transitions that the long term plan was well justified and worked.
I agree that users will have no choice but to adapt - provided the app is polished to a workable state.
There is a clear roadmap where the Suunto App would become mandatory for data download and watch customization, workouts will be uploaded to the Sports Tracker back-end (with Suunto modifications), and user data would be downloadable into third-party websites for analysis.
However this is a different kind of transition. The previous ones were about expanding the services, but this one is about winding down a service.
Apparently the decision has been made to scale down the service by discontinuing the Movescount service as a whole. This includes the web interface/front-end, the desktop sync applications (Moveslink for MoveStick Mini, Moveslink2, Suuntolink), the mobile Movescount app, the Azure back-end, and the user data storage.
This has consequences of reduced development and support resources for the outgoing Movescount platform. Unfortunately most users here do not seem to grasp these coming changes.
This is where I disagree with your post in this thread, as well as similar posts demanding or implying future availability of large-scale ‘pie in the sky’ features - which is not realistic to expect from this ‘new Suunto’ undergoing a scaling down and reducing the scope of software development efforts.
Surely Suunto will listen to complaints, though mostly to come up with a more efficient communication by addressing common concerns about the transition and convincing users to remain on the new Suunto App platform with their current (and most preferably, future) Suunto gear. The transition announcement as it was recently communicated still lacks important details and does not provide a clear feature roadmap for the Suunto App, if there is any.
whether I like it or not I have been through many Suunto transitions. I doubt that Suunto is planning to end its dominance.
Surely they are not planning to end the brand, just to better leverage existing assets. I think there are several key points of their plan:
- Offering mobile-only Sports Tracker-derived Sunnto App for data sync - to lower costs for web server infrastructure and processor time
- Relocating Movescount users and workout data into Sports Tracker - and automatically joining new Suunto customers to the Sports Tracker community
- Offering Sports Tracker users direct support for Suunto gear - AFAIK direct support for Garmin and Polar is one of the most requested features for the Sports Tracker
- Suunto users needing advanced features can connect to other services through a simplified Cloud API (with direct export of .FIT/.GPX files) - same opportunities offered for Sports Tracker users
- Mature and fully functional mobile app - important for developing markets where mobile phones have much larger penetration than the PC
Now execution of this plan could use some better consideration. For example I cannot really gather why it didn’t occur to them that all current phones have USB2 ports which could be used for direct cable connection to the older Ambit/Ambit2 watches.
So, to answer your question, maybe I cannot grasp what is happening or alternatively, I have been through many transitions with Suunto, I have had AMAZING customer service.
That’s very nice of them to offer this level of support in the USA, though it’s not directly related to the discussion on the future of Suunto’s new service platform.
my Vector when Suunto released it did not have a web app
my X10 was not compatible with STraM (Suunto Training Manager)…
I was thrilled when Movescount was started as I could finally use a Mac…
I knew there was ancient life prior to Movescount but AFAIK it was obliterated by an asteroid impact approximately 65 million workouts ago… looks like some species were recreated in a biology lab on a distant island in the CaribbeansColoradans
I’m probably spoiled by having the good thing right from the beginning, since my Quest came with Movescount support right away. This service was the primary reason I’ve chosen Suunto over other brands, though I agree some parts of the web site were not up-to-date.
Desktop applications sure could use some better engineering though - for example Moveslink2 just kept interfering with wake timers in Windows 10 to the point of disallowing hybrid sleep mode entirely and Suunto was never able to fully fix it. Also lot of sync problems between GPS Pod tracks and watch data, which were imported as two separate workouts so you had to merge them into one, and errors could only be fixed by referring to online product support through a very arcane MySuunto.com system. So not exactly a flawless experience on the software side.
I think many users here would agree that Suunto offers top-class hardware - especially with the latest Spartan, Spartan Sport Wrist HR and Suunto 9 series (and vastly improved Bluetooth HR belt, very important for me to cover winter activities) which have everything you should expect from premium sport watches, maybe except an always-on OLED screen - but their application software could use much, much better engineering effort.
This is why there are reservations regarding the promise to substantially improve Suunto App in just one year and half.
