Maps are sluggish and have low update frequency
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During the last updates I have experienced that the maps seems to be fairly sluggish and have a poor responsiveness compared to before. I have tried with two Verticals, one of which was hard reset, and on the last 2 firmware versions, and the outcome is the same.
If I walk and take my arm up and look at the map, the map update frequency is very slow unless I do a “full 360 circle” (as in I actually turn slowly around). Then the map becomes responsive like it always was. But then if I start walking just for a few steps again the map becomes unresponsive again. This only happens during an activity (hiking, walking). And it happens regardless of using SuuntoPlus apps or not, and regardless of the zoom level of the map (I have tested all). At first I thought it was the first watch that had a problem, then I got a replacement for that and it has the exact same problem. I then did a hard-reset on the first watch and it still has the same problem. So I’m confident that it is not a problem with the watch.
To me it almost appears to be some sort of power-saving measure or something that kicks in and lowers the refresh-rate of the map. I do have many maps downloaded, and about 20-30 routes and POIs, but I wouldn’t think that could cause this to happen? I have tried all the map types, and it happens on all of them, and I have tried with the ruler on and off also. I have tried with the default sport profiles with the highest accuracy.
The fluidity of the maps was the selling point of the Vertical for me. But now the maps are very unresponsive and reminds me of the maps on the Garmin Fenix watches. PS! This ONLY happens during an activity, and does not happen if you simply use the map widget. It also happens during a tracking activity, as well as during a routing/navigation activity.
Suunto App username: borgeindergaard750
Sportstracker (Suunto App) profile: https://www.sports-tracker.com/view_profile/borgeindergaard750 -
@borgein it won’t help you, but my perception (I can’t say assessment as I have not taken any measurements / numbers) is not the same on my Vertical. Maps are always responsive - at least in the manner, that I do not notice any slow update/ response / sluggishness - while using it during runs, walks and bike trips, independent from the used scale, and independent if I am using routes or just the map. And yes: when I an activity I usually have at least one app active (Burner).
I am really interested how the experiences of others are. -
@Shrek3k I thought maybe the first watch had an issue, but when it happens on two Verticals and on two different firmwares, I can’t be the only one experiencing it. Maybe it is best to try to make a video where I show how it is very unresponsive until I stand still and rotate a little around and then it “snaps” into place and becomes very responsive and fluid again. It’s strange, because it was never an issue before the last two firmwares (for me at least).
I also have to add that it happens in the city (many details in the map) as well as on the top of a mountain (few details in the map).
If I leave the watch on the map screen while doing an activity where the map is used, and walk, then take the watch up and “pan around” the map movement is not very responsive. But if I stand still and move around a bit more then it becomes very responsive after 2-5 seconds. But then if I start walking (leaving the watch on the map screen) and stop and repeat the same, the map screen is very slow to update, but after 2-5 seconds becomes more responsive again. To me it almost seems like an intentional power saving feature or something that kicks in when the watch is left on the map screen and not being looked at (when the hand is down towards the ground while walking).
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I also find the maps very responsive. There is never any noticeable lag.
Even on a bike when moving quicker no issues.
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Which sport mode are you using?
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@borgein signal-2024-07-11-23-51-22-897.mp4
Just an example from a short walk (mode: walking, with “Burner”) that I did just a few hours ago (harder to produce a video than I expected). And I think that this is not lagged Ng at all, but smoothly following all changes of direction …
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@sartoric said in Maps are sluggish and have low update frequency:
Which sport mode are you using?
Walking and hiking - default modes.
I’ll try to make a video that shows the difference I am talking about. I think that makes it easier to understand. -
@Shrek3k said in Maps are sluggish and have low update frequency:
@borgein signal-2024-07-11-23-51-22-897.mp4
Just an example from a short walk (mode: walking, with “Burner”) that I did just a few hours ago (harder to produce a video than I expected). And I think that this is not lagged Ng at all, but smoothly following all changes of direction …
Thanks. That seems to update slower than normal or what it used to to me. It used to be almost fluid smooth where you didn’t almost notice the frames update, which still happens but only when I stand still, Lifting my watch arm up and rotating my body significantly, then the map becomes super fluid again, like it also used to be in motion s few firmwares ago.
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Here is an example of when I turn around while walking the map screen updates slowly. It might be difficult to see how much I am turning around, but I almost do 90 degrees turn before the map updates. Then after doing that the map fluidity snaps back to being very responsive. I will try to make a better video later.
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I think what is happening is that the map locks in your direction of travel when you are moving, but goes back to the panning feature when you stop. I don’t recall if this is different behavior than before the update.
To me, this makes sense. When you are moving, you want the map to have your direction of travel facing up, which is not necessarily the direction your wrist is facing, especially if you are running. If you need to stop for a more thorough navigation check, then it is helpful to have the map rotate in the direction the watch is facing.
The problem you are seeing is when you are traveling at low speeds, the direction lock might switch on and off too frequently. Maybe Suunto can refine this in the future.
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@borgein
I had the same during a race and found that it came from a magnet.
I have a magnet on my camelbad tube.
It’s dangling around and if it gets close to the watch the compass gets disoriented and the map behaves exactly like you say.
Turning 360° or doing the figure of 8 calibrate the compass again and it’s back to responsive.Pleas check if you have anything with you that could affect the sensitive watch compass.
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@duffman19 I understand it that way, too, that the map “needs the movement” to adjust direction (via GPS).
A slower movement / activity leads to a slower (or erratic) reaction / adaptation of the map, and standing and turning - even with compass - does not help too much to orientate on the digital map.
For me the map adaptation on my slow walk was as good as I expected it, faster adaptation to directions or so was not what I expected … but let’s see if there are more knowledgeable comments about the used technology and its limitations. -
@Egika said in Maps are sluggish and have low update frequency:
@borgein
I had the same during a race and found that it came from a magnet.
I have a magnet on my camelbad tube.
It’s dangling around and if it gets close to the watch the compass gets disoriented and the map behaves exactly like you say.
Turning 360° or doing the figure of 8 calibrate the compass again and it’s back to responsive.Pleas check if you have anything with you that could affect the sensitive watch compass.
It happens all the time here. And I dont have any metals or magnets on me, unless the buttons of my jeans or hiking pants are causing it (they are metal), and my metal belt buckle (tried different belts - not intentionally however!). I don’t have any ring or anything else on me that is magnetic or metal.
Are you saying that the compass needs to be recalibrated and that is what is causing it? The compass on the watch does not mention that it needs recalibration.
Suunto App username: borgeindergaard750
Sportstracker (Suunto App) profile: https://www.sports-tracker.com/view_profile/borgeindergaard750 -
@duffman19 said in Maps are sluggish and have low update frequency:
I think what is happening is that the map locks in your direction of travel when you are moving, but goes back to the panning feature when you stop. I don’t recall if this is different behavior than before the update.
To me, this makes sense. When you are moving, you want the map to have your direction of travel facing up, which is not necessarily the direction your wrist is facing, especially if you are running. If you need to stop for a more thorough navigation check, then it is helpful to have the map rotate in the direction the watch is facing.
The problem you are seeing is when you are traveling at low speeds, the direction lock might switch on and off too frequently. Maybe Suunto can refine this in the future.
Sounds logical, but there must have been a change. Because I remember when I was trailrunning in the nearby forests 2-3 months ago and using the map, the map was super responsive all the time. Now it is not. I thought it was because I had downloaded so many maps (20gb or so) so I deleted some maps. Then I thought it was the watch that had an issue, so I replaced it with a new Vertical and downloaded only my local map, and it has the exact same issue. I then tried to hard-reset the first watch before returning it, and it still had the same issue. So I’m fairly sure it’s not the hardware.
To me it looks like a powersaving feature that takes a few seconds to become disabled or something. Because it makes sense to not refresh the map screen so often during a walk when the watch is not being looked at. And considering that the Vertical got increased battery life of 5 hour during activities after the last update, I guess some things must have changed to make this possible?
Suunto App username: borgeindergaard750
Sportstracker (Suunto App) profile: https://www.sports-tracker.com/view_profile/borgeindergaard750 -
@borgein said in Maps are sluggish and have low update frequency:
Are you saying that the compass needs to be recalibrated and that is what is causing it? The compass on the watch does not mention that it needs recalibration.
I suspect that the magnet was just irritating the compass and make the map sluggish.
It came back to full responsiveness lik you said, when doing a turn or the firgure of 8 hand movement.And it did not happen, when I moved the magnet far a way from the wrist, where it was dangling around before…
The fact that turning the watch heals it, seems to point in this direction…
Sometimes magnets are hidden in gloves etc…But if this is not the case for you, then we have to search in another direction…
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@Egika said in Maps are sluggish and have low update frequency:
@borgein said in Maps are sluggish and have low update frequency:
Are you saying that the compass needs to be recalibrated and that is what is causing it? The compass on the watch does not mention that it needs recalibration.
I suspect that the magnet was just irritating the compass and make the map sluggish.
It came back to full responsiveness lik you said, when doing a turn or the firgure of 8 hand movement.And it did not happen, when I moved the magnet far a way from the wrist, where it was dangling around before…
The fact that turning the watch heals it, seems to point in this direction…
Sometimes magnets are hidden in gloves etc…But if this is not the case for you, then we have to search in another direction…
Well it happens regardless if I go for a walk in the neighbourhood in a t-shirt and shorts, or if I hike 1000 meters up a mountain about 180km away from where I live, where there are no cell phone coverage even. Both times I usually only have a tshirt or shorts/hiking pants on. No gloves, nothing except my eyeglasses which are carbon/plastic, or sunglasses which are metal. That is the only thing I have on me that might be metal. No gloves, no jewelery, no accessories, no rings, I have no metall implants anywhere in my body, and certainly nothing magnetic anywhere. When I hike I have a few titanium parts in my backpack, a gas canister, a compass, wallet, phone…
My phone is always in my pocket on the other side of my body, so not on the side where my watch is. No headphones… No other bluetooth devices. So… I struggle to understand what could cause interference. Especially when I am on a mountain with clear skies and no cell phone coverage even. The only thing that could interfer then is maybe my Garmin Inreach Mini 2 Satellite messenger, but I only use that when on long hikes, never when I walk around my neighbourhood - when the same issue occurs. My Inreach Mini is also on the top of my shoulder on my right shoulder, far away from the watch.
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My guess, that’s why I asked which sport mode are you using, is that for slow sports (walk, hike …) as someone else already said, GPS direction is used while you’re moving, since it’s more than enough (and it helps to spare some battery i suppose)
As you stop it switch to compass.Then imho the responsiveness of this “switch” is based on gps signal, watch status (idle, busy, overloaded etc.)
It sometimes happens to me too
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@sartoric said in Maps are sluggish and have low update frequency:
My guess, that’s why I asked which sport mode are you using, is that for slow sports (walk, hike …) as someone else already said, GPS direction is used while you’re moving, since it’s more than enough (and it helps to spare some battery i suppose)
As you stop it switch to compass.Then imho the responsiveness of this “switch” is based on gps signal, watch status (idle, busy, overloaded etc.)
It sometimes happens to me too
I’ll try other sport profiles meant for faster movement, like running, trail running and biking, and see if that makes a difference. I don’t seem to remember this happening until the last 2-3 firmware versions though, I seem to remember the walk/hike profile always had very responsive maps regardless. So that is why I ask, because to me it would make sense that it was implemented like this to save power when the watch is left on the map screen and when the watch is on the side of the body (while walking/hiking) and not being looked at. But if that is the case, then maybe the sensitivity of this function should be raised so that it snaps back into being responsive a bit faster when the watch is raised to a position where the user is typically looking at it (just like raise to wake works).
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@borgein it changed in the last update. The map went from the best I’ve ever used on a watch to almost unusable because they are so sluggish. Love my vertical but honestly each update I’ve gotten since I bought it in January has introduced bugs that made it worse than when I bought it. This is a serious issue for suunto
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@borgein I’ve read your description of the isuue, and know exactly what your talking about. I noticed the issue when i first got my vertical in Feb. The map has only ever been latency/lag free for me when i’m stood still and rotating on the spot, any directional movement initiates the watches 1 second gps recording and update model. If you have 2 watches, surely if you “hard reset” the original watch it will have reverted to the original build version of the firmware, and enabled a direct comparison with the new watch running on the current firmware?
The videos others have uploaded only serve to illustrate the range in peoples perception/opinion of “lag/letency” The guy who’s vertical ran butter smooth when walking was completely oblivious to the 4 clearly visible and separate frames it took for the watch to perform a 90 degree rotation when he changed direction. Either that or he is in-fact a pigeon,lol. Everyone’s watches are gonna be the same, for the most part it’s the interpretation that will vary.
For what it’s worth, i also wish the refresh-rate was a little higher, to help smooth things out on the map screen. I fail to see how different sport modes will yield any differing results, given they all use the same base GPS presets…but give it a shot i guess.
