Resources and stress values flawed?

GiPFELKiND

@neonix really? 🧐

@GiPFELKiND said in Resources and stress values flawed?:

@neonix really? 🧐

Sorry, my mistake. Tired and stressful day, but just trying to act like my watch tells me, that I have 82% resources and 0:00 stress at 17:21

@GiPFELKiND said in Resources and stress values flawed?:

@neonix thats the reason why you buy a Garmin for much more Money Better Software. And --> you never got lost hope for fast solution from SUUNTO Side. This is very dangerous in some cases. Read here some comments that track back didnt work in the glacier You can call the mountain rescue team 🥴if the watch isnt working like promised!!!

Well in my case the Suunto Vertical Titanium Solar costs the same as a Garmin Fenix 7 Pro Sapphire Solar, and a little bit less than a Fenix 7x Pro Sapphire Solar. So the Suunto and Garmin are in the exact same price bracket. I just like the look and comfort of the Suunto more. But I can’t trust it even for its core functionality and safety (navigation and trackback). The Garmin trackback saved me once when I got lost on a mountain when heavy fog covered the entire mountain in less than 10 minutes. Just hit trackback on my Fenix 5x then and it guided me safely back to the mountain lodge even though I could not see anything, and there was no cell coverage at all for rescue calls even. After my short experience with the Suunto Vertical, there is no way I would trust it, not at all. The software feels like a gimmicky toy, and does not feel solid and reliable. Only the hardware of the watch feels reliable. But that doesn’t matter when the software is unreliable. Sad. Think I have to go back to Garmin. Need to be able to trust the watch for its intended purpose. For me these devices are a safety feature when going on mountain hikes, where there often is no cell coverage.

mikekoski490

@neonix Wow. Interesting - that you think if your watch told you to jump off a cliff, you would. Reminds me of those stories of people driving into buildings because their car gps told them to go straight instead of turn right or left, so they just accellerated into a building.

What I suggest is know the tool you are working with - read the manual and understand its strengths and limitations. Jeez…I would hate for your watch to show the barometer steady so you head further into the forest, even though you could SEE dark clouds, lightning, and feel wind approaching - and then say “MY Suunto sucks. It said weather was fine and I almost died.”

@mikekoski490 said in Resources and stress values flawed?:

@neonix Wow. Interesting - that you think if your watch told you to jump off a cliff, you would. Reminds me of those stories of people driving into buildings because their car gps told them to go straight instead of turn right or left, so they just accellerated into a building.

What I suggest is know the tool you are working with - read the manual and understand its strengths and limitations. Jeez…I would hate for your watch to show the barometer steady so you head further into the forest, even though you could SEE dark clouds, lightning, and feel wind approaching - and then say “MY Suunto sucks. It said weather was fine and I almost died.”

Very helpful, thanks!

Niclas Brundell

A big reason for this is that no watch can measure sleep stages accurately. Study after study shows this. 80% accuracy compared to reality is above what a watch can do. Often we’re about less than 50% accuracy. Essentially turning into a random number generator. Imagine if distance or heart rate was equally inaccurate. You wouldn’t use the watch. This is true for for any brand like garmin were i had the exact same issue. So it’s not a suunto criticism. Just a flawed metric in general. I could have the worst sleep ever and it says I had a great night sleep. It’s usually the first features I disable or hide on any watch.

Niclas Brundell

@GiPFELKiND resources based on sleep is a made up number on any watch. A watch can’t measure sleep stages

Brad_Olwin

@GiPFELKiND said in Resources and stress values flawed?:

@neonix thats the reason why you buy a Garmin for much more Money Better Software. And --> you never got lost hope for fast solution from SUUNTO Side. This is very dangerous in some cases. Read here some comments that track back didnt work in the glacier You can call the mountain rescue team 🥴if the watch isnt working like promised!!!

I had a Garmin for nearly a year……the software was flawed and I can provide a very long list of details. My training was always unproductive despite the fact that I trained and ran a 162k race. I could not load a route for a long adventure as I had too many points and my route was truncated…very dangerous because my route will end in the wilderness and I will be lost…. The watch did not work as promised!!!

Perhaps you could provide specific examples of why the Garmin software is better. The loss of breadcrumb after 6h is a known bug and will be fixed…inconvenient yes, life threatening, no. If you are solely relying on a watch track to save you in the wilderness you have no business being in the wilderness!

GiPFELKiND

@Brad_Olwin . If you are solely relying on a watch track to save you in the wilderness you have no business being in the wilderness!

Had another thoughts: If i Walk on a Glacier in good conditions there isnt a Problem. If the weather Changes and i am in foggy Situation this can be very dangerous to cannot trackback on my route and in the bad case i will die. Wilderness is the one case - you wrote. Reality Situations is another case! It is a big bad Situation that suunto dont fix this KNOWN Problem until today! How long they will wait to fix it? Until one Person died? Didnt hope so.

@Brad_Olwin said in Resources and stress values flawed?:
If you are solely relying on a watch track to save you in the wilderness you have no business being in the wilderness!

I don’t rely solely on my watch in the wilderness, or on mountains. But as I wrote in another post, at least where I live, in Norway, the weather on our mountains can change rapidly, and be totally different than what any weather service can predict. In under 10 minutes you can go from perfect blue sunny skies to not seeing anything due to fog. I have experienced this myself many times.

As I also wrote earlier, the watch is a security feature for me. It HAS TO WORK AS ADVERTISED or it is a FLAWED product. Do I rely solely on it? Of course not. I have a compass and maps, and I also use a Garmin InReach 2 Mini with satellite phone and WORKING trackback with me, just in case! I have never experienced a garmin that wants to send me down a cliff when I choose trackback like my Suunto Vertical did. It is stupid.

Zdeněk Hruška

@neonix Hey man I don’t know if I understand correctly but did you use the “Find Back” feature on the watch? Or did you follow the breadcrumbs?
The Find Back feature is actually described in the manual and it is clearly stated that: “Suunto Race automatically saves the starting point of your exercise. With Find back, Suunto Race can guide you directly back to your starting point.”
https://www.suunto.com/en-gb/Support/Product-support/suunto_race/suunto_race/recording-an-exercise/navigating-during-exercise/

So it’s behaving correctly as described in the manual (if you are talking about it and not the breadcrumbs issue).

For tracking back there are breadcrumbs which you could follow. I am not sure if you experienced the issue when it’s disappearing after some time which I agree is a huge bug and should be fixed by Suunto ASAP.

I just think it is important to distinguish between those two cases. One behaves as it should and the second is a quite a big bug. And I think it’s kind of mixed up in this thread if I understood all the comments correctly (or didn’t)

@Zdeněk-Hruška said in Resources and stress values flawed?:

@neonix Hey man I don’t know if I understand correctly but did you use the “Find Back” feature on the watch? Or did you follow the breadcrumbs?
The Find Back feature is actually described in the manual and it is clearly stated that: “Suunto Race automatically saves the starting point of your exercise. With Find back, Suunto Race can guide you directly back to your starting point.”
https://www.suunto.com/en-gb/Support/Product-support/suunto_race/suunto_race/recording-an-exercise/navigating-during-exercise/

So it’s behaving correctly as described in the manual (if you are talking about it and not the breadcrumbs issue).

For tracking back there are breadcrumbs which you could follow. I am not sure if you experienced the issue when it’s disappearing after some time which I agree is a huge bug and should be fixed by Suunto ASAP.

I just think it is important to distinguish between those two cases. One behaves as it should and the second is a quite a big bug. And I think it’s kind of mixed up in this thread if I understood all the comments correctly (or didn’t)

The entire point of the “trackback” feature is to take you back the same way you walked to where you are. Not to just give you a straight quickest path (aerial line) that goes across mountain cliffs, lakes, and everything else. When I walked up a mountain summit (and tracked the walk and used a route) and chose “trackback/findback” on the watch, it just gave me a straight aerial navigation line straight down the steepest part of the mountain directly to where my car was on the map screen. Not walkable, probably not even mountain climbable, and definitely not a hiking route in any way… Not very helpful, especially in limited visibility. And also potentially dangerous for the crowd that follows the GPS no matter what (yes, as crazy as it sounds, but still, many people have died from just following the GPS blindly, so maybe it should be more reliable?!)

I dont know about the Suunto Race since I’m using the Vertical and have no interest in AMOLED watches (tried an Epix Gen 2 Pro).

Zdeněk Hruška

@neonix I understand that. My question is why didn’t you follow the breadcrumbs trail to get back? I believe that because of the breadcrumbs implementation there is no need to have a separate “track back” feature. It could be there but it’s not completely necessary I believe.

So did you experience the disappearing breadcrumb trail issue? Or what was the reason?

Yes, sorry, I also have the vertical. But the behavior is the same.

@Zdeněk-Hruška said in Resources and stress values flawed?:

@neonix I understand that. My question is why didn’t you follow the breadcrumbs trail to get back? I believe that because of the breadcrumbs implementation there is no need to have a separate “track back” feature. It could be there but it’s not completely necessary I believe.

So did you experience the disappearing breadcrumb trail issue? Or what was the reason?

Yes, sorry, I also have the vertical. But the behavior is the same.

I had to load the route and follow it in reverse back. Well I didn’t have to, since I knew this hike very well. But I was just testing it prior to using it in more unknown terrain later this summer. I found no option to reverse the route in the watch either, so It was still trying to take me to the summit, not back to the start of the route/navigation. This stuff is very easy on Garmins, and works properly. I just dont feel like I can actually rely on the Vertical for this use. Its just a tool to record a walk then, nothing more, which makes it way too expensive for just a simple walk tracker.

Zdeněk Hruška

@neonix It is actually reversed automatically in the watch after a while going in the different direction.
And in the app there is an option to reverse the route as well.
I am not sure what is an issue here then, sorry. I get it’s behaving differently than Garmin. It could be better for you the way that Garmin does it it’s understandable. But all of the things you mentioned (sorry if I am mistaken) here are there.
I don’t mean it in a bad way. The navigation in the watch is also very important for me for the similar reasons as yours. But I think that except the breadcrumbs trail bug (which has to be fixed) it does what I would be expecting.
I hope it helps in case you would like to give the watch another chance (you don’t have to of course :)).
Take care and be safe in the mountains!

EDIT: And still there is that red breadcrumb line you can follow back (unless you experience the mentioned issue of course). But it’s worth mentioning.

@Zdeněk-Hruška said in Resources and stress values flawed?:

@neonix It is actually reversed automatically in the watch after a while going in the different direction.
And in the app there is an option to reverse the route as well.
I am not sure what is an issue here then, sorry. I get it’s behaving differently than Garmin. It could be better for you the way that Garmin does it it’s understandable. But all of the things you mentioned (sorry if I am mistaken) here are there.
I don’t mean it in a bad way. The navigation in the watch is also very important for me for the similar reasons as yours. But I think that except the breadcrumbs trail bug (which has to be fixed) it does what I would be expecting.
I hope it helps in case you would like to give the watch another chance (you don’t have to of course :)).
Take care and be safe in the mountains!

EDIT: And still there is that red breadcrumb line you can follow back (unless you experience the mentioned issue of course). But it’s worth mentioning.

Yes, maybe some things are not clear for me. Like the automatic reversal of the route, I did not know about that. Maybe it would be nice to have a menu option in the watch to reverse the route also, instead of automatic? For people like me who are used to being able to do these things manually, and not rely on automatic things I will probably give it more chances, but I hope the next major update has navigation improvements. I really like how responsive the maps are, and I actually prefer the UI design and interface of the Suunto to Garmins. But I feel some parts of the software on the watch still needs a lot of work or tuning. The resources feature, the sleep feature (being able to edit recorded sleep in the app), the navigation features. And while the maps are great in real life use (more clear and easy to use and find alternative trails on than Garmins maps), I do wish that the maps will have some preloaded POIs in the future, as well as the names of at least big lakes and areas. I dont expect the street names of every street, but big lakes, mountains, etc. that helps with navigation on the map screen would be very helpful.

cosme.costa

@neonix If you read here and there, I think that next update will have its core in navigation. I would also like to see, as you, some peak, lake,… names as reference. Regarding automatic reverse route, it has been there since the Spartan Ultra and once you use it you will see that you do not need any option, it works really well.
One thing that I see that Garmin has and would be very nice to have is some routing in the watch, I mean, I do not want to plan my route in the watch but some times you are doing one route and for some reason you need to cut it and return to the starting point or some known spot and with Garmin you can plan the shortest route in the watch, with Suunto you need the app for that with cell coverage (with offline maps in the app could be doable in Suunto without cell coverage)

BTW, I do not not know if you know it but a nice feature in Suunto is that you can change routes mid activity and send them from the app to the watch mid activity too.