Steep counter

pilleus

Of course, it doesn’t matter how many steps I take every day. It also doesn’t matter how high the heart rate measured on my wrist is. And whether I have now covered 100 meters more or less with GPS.

Use a chest strap if you want accurate data. I read that again and again. Buy a Stryd if you’re interested in steps. Also like to write again and again.

And if you want emojis on your watch, then you’re one of the weird ones. I’ve read that too.

If I record data, I want it to be correct. And other manufacturers show that it works. That’s what it’s about and not about trends, whether I walked more today than yesterday. I know that even without a watch.

But I’m quiet again now and take a few steps in the fresh air … whether a few more or a few less.

Zdeněk Hruška

@pilleus But all of that what you hear is correct. There are more precise ways how to measure certain… measures
But I can tell you a difference between how important is to have for example precise HR and precise GPS versus steps counting - at least for a sports oriented watch. There are use cases for it you know. There are situations for which it matters to have a precise HR. There are also situations where it matters to have a precise GPS. We can find many examples. There isn’t any use case known to me where it matters to have precise steps count. You just want a perfect number just for a sake of it or am I wrong? How will you use that perfect number if you have it? Maybe I just don’t know I can be wrong I admit that. That’s why I am asking.
Enjoy your time outside:)

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

threadmill distance is not calculated by steps only

pilleus

@Zdeněk-Hruška said in Steep counter:

You just want a perfect number just for a sake of it or am I wrong? How will you use that perfect number if you have it?

Many health insurance companies allow their members to participate in a bonus program via smartphone app. Proof of health-promoting measures (e.g. daily steps) can be uploaded to the app. The points are automatically collected and credited. Many bonus program apps can be linked to Google Fit. I synchronize my step data with Google Fit.

With the 9PP and the Vertical, I have more steps at my desk at lunchtime than with any other watch in the evening after a walk. Good for my rewards program, but in reality that’s fake data.

I actually don’t use the 9PP or Vertical for this because I’m a sportsman and fairness and comparability are paramount to me.

So it pays to use the better and more accurate measurement method, as you wrote so well.

pilleus

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in Steep counter:

threadmill distance is not calculated by steps only

With my 9PP I can record a treadmill workout while I am sitting in front of my pc and just move my arm up and down. So I assume that no step is required to calculate the distance on the treadmill.

You can try it and I think it will show, that this is not the perfect solution concerning “step counting”.

The step-counter is garbage. I am wearing a Vertical and Fenix 7 at the same time, and yesterday the Vertical counted 2200 more steps than the Fenix. Based on my activity level, the Fenix is definitely more accurate. Even after just waking up in the morning and making coffee I have according to the Vertical already made over 500 steps… NOT TRUE.

freeheeler

the step counter discussion is relatively old and my personal opinion, it is really not that important.
I know some people will not agree… but what do you want to know by the steps? what does it tell you?
fenix says x, suunto says y… what you can use the step counter for is to track how active or how lazy you are over time.
I find it much more important to track my fitness level, HRV and sleep duration.

Todd Danielczyk

@freeheeler HRV is a game changer for me. When Suunto turned that on for the Vertical I immediately (well after 14 days) saw the benefit to tracking that for sure!

@freeheeler said in Steep counter:

the step counter discussion is relatively old and my personal opinion, it is really not that important.
I know some people will not agree… but what do you want to know by the steps? what does it tell you?
fenix says x, suunto says y… what you can use the step counter for is to track how active or how lazy you are over time.
I find it much more important to track my fitness level, HRV and sleep duration.

The watch calculates calories burned based on the amount of steps… For many people, the daily calories spent is important. When you base one important metric on another metric that is completely unreliable, then you have garbage data. If it doesn’t work properly, just remove it or turn it off! Why include a stepcounter if it is garbage?

I understand you dont care. But many people do care. And when the product is advertised with a stepcounter that calculates calories spent based on the step counter, the stepcounter should be reliable, not hot garbage.

And if Suunto can’t get a basic thing like step counter somewhat reliable, then how can i trust ANY of the other metrics or data? … Do it right, or don’t do it at all!

pilleus

@freeheeler said in Steep counter:

my personal opinion, it is really not that important.

The question is not, if data which are captured by the 9PP or Vertical are important for me, but if these data are reliable.

The cyclist says: pedometer doesn’t have to be right, I’m cycling.
The kayaker says: GPS doesn’t have to be right, it measures the wrong speed on the river in the current anyway.
The sailor says: Altitude data doesn’t have to be correct, I’m only traveling at sea level.
The runner says: Calories don’t have to be right, I can’t eat as much as I consume.

Suunto offers widgets for all measured data on the watch and in the app. And I expect the data to be correct. Regardless of whether I need it or not.

And if these two watches differ greatly compared to other watches and to a pedometer, I don’t have to question the other watches and doubt their data. I simply have to make improvements.

That’s all that happened.

pilleus

@neonix said in Steep counter:

And if Suunto can’t get a basic thing like step counter somewhat reliable, then how can i trust ANY of the other metrics or data? … Do it right, or don’t do it at all!

Chapeau!

Zdeněk Hruška

@pilleus sorry but all of those examples you have provided are totally different to a step count issue. Suunto are outdoor / sports watch so I would argue their main purpose is to perform great measuring important stats for sports. If they fail in that purpose then yes it’s an issue. Step count isn’t important for any sport as far as I know. That’s why the gps is there for example and you want it to be precise, because it measures distance, that’s a good stat. Steps? It’s interesting to see how active you were that day. It doesn’t tell you anything more if you know the exact number. And burned calories are total guess for every watch and every device out there. It can’t be measured precisely. Again it’s there so you can see approximately the value of the calories you could burn. The exact number is wrong for different people no matter what.

freeheeler

@neonix
a company has a feature that someone isn’t convinced of its precision and hence all features are doubtful?
I’m surprised.

I don’t know how Suunto is estimating calories and I must say: I don’t check calories either…
is it differing between your devices as well?

wakarimasen

The curse of comparison! Which one is really correct, from all of the devices that are an estimation anyway?

thanasis

@Zdeněk-Hruška said in Steep counter:

@pilleus sorry but all of those examples you have provided are totally different to a step count issue. Suunto are outdoor / sports watch so I would argue their main purpose is to perform great measuring important stats for sports. If they fail in that purpose then yes it’s an issue. Step count isn’t important for any sport as far as I know. That’s why the gps is there for example and you want it to be precise, because it measures distance, that’s a good stat. Steps? It’s interesting to see how active you were that day. It doesn’t tell you anything more if you know the exact number. And burned calories are total guess for every watch and every device out there. It can’t be measured precisely. Again it’s there so you can see approximately the value of the calories you could burn. The exact number is wrong for different people no matter what.

the issue i have is if Suunto knows that the step counter is not accurate at all, then how come on the new watchfaces they provided with the recent update the Steps widget cannot be removed? to my understanding , It seems that the company feels that this metric is as important as showing the time

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

In general you are trying to achieve a decent step counter with something worn on the hand.

Back in the days even htc had phones with step counters.

While the basic need to know steps and calories is there , personally I prefer polars approach of activity instead of steps and calories that will always be so inaccurate.

So sure, if you are demanding a fish to climb a tree and judge it’s swimming performance by the climbing performance (how can other metrics be accurate ) go ahead and garbage Suunto.

pilleus

I keep reading tests about GPS watches and fitness trackers. They also compare and evaluate the accuracy of the pedometer. What kind of dilettantes are they?

I have learned one thing in this topic: data that a Suunto watch does not record correctly is unimportant and is not needed for a real outdoor sports watch.

And no, dear @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos, throwing the watch in the garbage is neither an argument nor a solution for me.

EOF …

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos I completely agree, but I think the value of a metric, whatever it is, has to be somewhat sensible for the context for which it was designed, and I mean, since we are talking about steps, that at least when you are sitting on the couch it does not start to increase almost spontaneously. Having said that even if I do not care about steps, I think if we had called it movement the issue would be more than resolved .

Zdeněk Hruška

@pilleus Maybe you should read it again. That is definitely not what anybody here have said. There is no point in repeating the same arguments again.

A little bit off topic, recently I have read reviews for new watches from Polar and Coros, both of them have a new shiny optical heart rate sensor. For some reason there are many situations where the OHR doesn’t work correctly or is completely off. Even Garmin watches doesn’t measure HR with the sensor on the wrist correctly for all the people in all the situations. Why is that I wonder. Maybe the wrist is not the best place where to measure heart rate (at least with the current technology it has some limitations). But it’s unreliable if you don’t know when it’s off or when it’s correct. According to your logic why did all the companies bother to implement OHR if the values are not correct and can be measured better with other devices? And OHR is quite important metric. Almost as important as steps I would say.
Anyway…

@Zdeněk-Hruška said in Steep counter:

@pilleus Maybe you should read it again. That is definitely not what anybody here have said. There is no point in repeating the same arguments again.

A little bit off topic, recently I have read reviews for new watches from Polar and Coros, both of them have a new shiny optical heart rate sensor. For some reason there are many situations where the OHR doesn’t work correctly or is completely off. Even Garmin watches doesn’t measure HR with the sensor on the wrist correctly for all the people in all the situations. Why is that I wonder. Maybe the wrist is not the best place where to measure heart rate (at least with the current technology it has some limitations). But it’s unreliable if you don’t know when it’s off or when it’s correct. According to your logic why did all the companies bother to implement OHR if the values are not correct and can be measured better with other devices? And OHR is quite important metric. Almost as important as steps I would say.
Anyway…

Are you seriously comparing wrist-based heart rate monitoring (extremely advanced and difficult, and highly individual based on anatomy and skin color) and counting steps (fairly easy to measure and not so individual)? Seriously?