Suunto 7 sleep tracking
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@zoran-z
Based on sleep stages you really only want your watch to track one main sleep period, naps really shouldn’t be included as sleep.
Naps should and do get rolled up into your resources - you should see a recharge - which is effectively what a nap does - helps you recharge energy.Unfortunately in version one of firstbeat sleep tracking you don’t get the level of details that have now been rolled out to garmin’s using it which includes a full breakdown of your sleep score, when you have this, you start to see why it makes sense not to include naps.
Part of your sleep tracking is sleep stages, with deep sleep being the most important. On average you should try to achieve between 13-23% of deep sleep in relation to your total sleep duration; and around 20-25% of REM sleep. The way sleep stages work is that normally your deep sleep occurs within the first 90 mins of sleeping and is usually 2 stages and should be at latest 20-40m; later deep sleep stage can occur but not that usual. Your first REM stage should be very short and shouldn’t be more than 10min, there after you should experience regular REM alternated with light sleep- with possibly another deep sleep stage mixed in (but not usual).
Thus if nap for less than an hour and you start including these in your overall sleep duration you are going to throw off your Deep and REM percentages of your total sleep (another reason why long naps can also throw out your evening sleep). So based on this, naps count towards recharging your resources (body battery for Garmin). -
@zoran-z if you want to track your sleep after a night shift, then I believe you need to set the ‘bedtime reminder’ in the sleep part of the watch (I haven’t tried it on the S7, but I know this is how many other watches work).
As @Jamie-BG mentions, it is not beneficial to track short naps, as you do not get the required amount of each sleep stage. Yes, a power nap can give you an energy boost, but it is only short term and can be detrimental in the long run (if you rely on power naps instead of getting proper quality sleep each night/day).
Within the Suunto 7 watch and the App on the phone, the sleep tracking doesn’t give any info on when you were in each sleep stage, just how long you were in each one.
However, if you allow the export of sleep data to Google Fit, this does display when you were in each stage (although it often takes a few hours to appear). I have compared it to my Withings Sleep Analyser and it’s close enough for me to trust it. -
@zoran-z i found this book quite insightful, especially concerning alcohol and caffeine, but also that temperature plays a role in sleeping…
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@chrisa there is definitely lots of parameters. Few years ago I decided to buy a good mattress for my bedroom and follow this and that beliefs about sleeping, like bed orientation, lights, food, and all. Finally, this didn’t change that much my sleep quality (which was not good at this time).
Then I realized I almost always have pretty good nights during treks, when sleeping on a crap trekking mattress in a tent in the middle of nowhere without thinking at all about my bed orientation and the color of my socks
Conclusion, do sport, avoid eating a full cow before bed, breath, stretch and try to shutdown your brain in bed (easy to say of course…).
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@darxmurf I made quite similar experiences, when I was on a 7 day trekking trip with horses - raise early, rode all day long, when the night came, you had an early dinner and then went to bed, which was another one every night - and mostly not the best - also slept on the ground besides the horses some nights, but never slept that deep again in my life. It was as somebody just „turned you off“. I assume it was the almost total absence of artificial light and of course being outdoors for 18 to 24 hours a day.
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@chrisa and voilà! Something to cleanup your head will make a big part of the job. Then add the other little things
- low light
- cool environment (I can’t sleep well in warm rooms)
- low noise around
And good night
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@chrisa @darxmurf there isn’t a magic wand of criteria that works for everyone, but that list is a great place to start.
For example, I sleep better in a cooler room than my gf does (by roughly three degrees C).
A good quality mattress and pillows are a huge benefit. We switched to hybrid memory foam a couple of years back and the difference was astonishing!
Personally I have found that eating just before bed makes little to no difference to how I sleep. However, even one alcoholic drink has a noticeable impact.
I have smart lights in my house that are set to automatically dim as the evening goes on, as well as reduce the blue light. Same with my phone and laptop displays. I feel like this has made a difference.
Exercise is a massive impact I feel. I barely did anything over christmas - partly due to resting a sore achillies, and partly due to just having a lazy period - and my sleep was terrible (not helped by alcohol most days I’ll admit). I did a short run on Sunday and immediately slept better.
I like to sleep with white noise or rain sounds, but my gf hates it so we don’t do it
I’ve tracked my sleep for years, using various bits of kit, and whether it works or not can be debated. But, it has worked for me.
I used to sleep 5 hours a night on a good night, and nap in the afternoon. I was always a bit tired and would struggle to maintain concentration for long periods. When I started tracking and seeing warnings on the devices telling me sleep quality was poor and I wasn’t getting enough, I started to implement changes one by one.
I now sleep 7-8 hours a night with mostly good sleep reports, no more naps, my concentration is much better, I’m less tired.I’ve found my S7 to be one of the best sleep trackers i’ve used (and i’ve used plenty!), I’m really happy with it
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Thanks everyone for replies. Sorry for my english it’s not my mother language. Despite to everything I think nap of 2 and more hours during the day also gets a big role in 24h in your body so I still think there is a way to also include sleep moments like that in all calculations that would more precise your body stage and situation.
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@zoran-z - it should be reflected in your resources. Also technically you really shouldn’t be napping for so long as you as it will affect your overall sleep rhythms. If you are over the age of 60 fair enough, but if you are under 60 and don’t have any serious medical conditions that cause fatigue then you really shouldn’t require a 2hr nap every day - if you do I would seriously suggest you get access to a sleep clinic and it would suggest that you aren’t getting sufficient deep sleep in your regular sleep.
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@jamie-bg I wouldn’t make such claims. Picture someone who is exposed to prolong physical activity during the day. Or picture a student who studies for 10-12 hours daily without having weekends. I think it may only be conserning if leading the same lifestyle has suddenly caused the need of long naps during the day.
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@dmytro the lack of nap tracking unfortunately really makes this inferior for sleep tracking compared to fitbit. Excited to see if there will really be a Pixel watch using fitbit as the tracking engine . But if Suunto did add naps, I’d be torn.
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@harboe to be frank, u doubt it will anytime soon. But we’ll see.
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@dmytro I agree, even though I’m not sure if you mean Google releasing the Pixel watch or Suunto adding naps.
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@harboe haha, both
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@dmytro actually not true - in both cases still shouldn’t be napping to that extent. Should have longer duration sleeps, but still should look to keep naps under 30mins - no proven benefit over that time.
The bigger issue with the firstbeat sleep tracking is more around requiring a defined sleep period - which can cause issues for those with variable shift times; and its inability to determine when you are actually sleeping compared to lying in bed/watching tv on a couch - but again most trackers struggle with both. Have had numerous trackers which get this wrong at times. And unfortunately that is the reality based on how sleep trackers work off HR rather than working off brain waves which is the only real way to determine sleep and sleep stages (at least until they improve technology / find another way to determine sleep).
with Garmin’s updated firstbeat sleep tracking I believe you can force the watch into recording naps as sleep by putting the watch into DND/Battery Saver mode. If you sleep when its in this mode then it automatically records it as sleep rather than as a nap.
Might be worth trying it with the S7; however may just be the updated version - we got an update about 4 months ago.
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@jamie-bg you might be right, I need to check some research data. But if you are reffering to statistical data, I would argue that this doesn’t always tell something about an individual. Hence, my original comment, that if long naps are something that you have your whole life and it doesn’t affect your quality of life, chances are - nothing’s wrong with you.
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@dmytro - not referring to statistical but empirical i.e. studied, tested and proven.
And just because one thinks it isn’t affecting your quality of life, doesn’t necessarily mean that it isn’t. If that is your standard you don’t know better.
My personal experience, my research into empirical studies and discussing it with sleep specialist doctors pretty much points out that there is an issue if you have to have long naps and you are under the age of 60. Usually points to an underlying health condition. Of course there is always the exception - but that is all they are.
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@jamie-bg I just did a quick research, which is highly probable to be subpar to yours, but most sources (like Harvard medicine) say that long naps may influence or can decrease sleep quality in the night. I’d say that it’s a pretty soft condition.
Well, empirical data is statistical. Empirical measurements are done if one doesn’t have a precise model, so instead one does a large number of experiments in hopes of finding some clues. And what I was meaning to say is even if a study takes 200 participants and all 200 of them find themselves at difficulty of falling asleep after a long nap, it doesn’t mean that your average Joe will experience the same thing. Since you have no underlying model, but just empirical data, you can only talk about likelihood of something happening. And talking from my own experience, it’s difficult to shake off sleepiness after a longer nap indeed, but if I succeed, I feel much better than after a short one and can stay productive longer and have no trouble going to sleep afterwards. -
I tried not setting the reminder and noticed that if I fall asleep on the couch the s7 is able to recognize it and start tracking. I was also surprised that even though I go to bed much later, that interruption doesn’t mess with the recording (I suppose it needs anyway a min amount of hours…)
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@g-q Does it track multiple sleep sessions during the day or just one and then combine the result?
Thanks in advance
