Movescount EOL - What does this mean for Ambit3 Peak?

Stefan Kersting

@Fenr1r it is ok to trust a watch in nice weather, but when conditions are bad and the weather is demanding I do not trust a watch without any map or some waypoints you picked at home in the sofa without knewing/seeing the terrain.

Maybe I am thinking like this because I live in Norway, but the first thing when outdoors and far away from help - maybe off the grid - is not to trust too much in technology that can fail. When using technology, then with a big enough electronic map you can use for navigation, e.g. a GPS device.

Fenr1r

@Stefan-Kersting Very good points and I mostly agree. I’m referring to fairly typical conditions (for some places) rather than extreme. Conditions that lie between handy map ‘n’ compass and full-on electronic map. I will sometimes take one of those, too - but it gobbles batteries and noticeably increases weight on multi-day hikes … and in that (often literally) grey area feels like overkill/cheating.

I will wear a watch anyway: lousy sense of time and no guaranteed sun visibility where I often go. I always take a map. And terrain always beats … everything. But if we use maps, we are already taking things on faith (that the cartographers were right, for starters). So, we use a working measure of confidence in the tools available, appropriate to conditions and perceived risk. Trust is never absolute.

The watch is, for me, the perfect compromise for the things I do on the majority of occasions where I need/want more than the time. It can give me a grid ref for my position that will translate fast enough to a position on the map good enough for most use. My POIs/Wps are picked because they are as permanent and identifiable as possible. If one isn’t where it’s supposed to be relative to where the watch thinks I am, then I step up a navigational grade.

But by and large my Suunto does a great job. Or “will have done a great job”, after Oct. 13.

Love those DNT tracks and the wilderness around them.

margusl

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in Movescount EOL - What does this mean for Ambit3 Peak?:

@margusl said in Movescount EOL - What does this mean for Ambit3 Peak?:

EPOC & V02 max values is still present in specs

You dont get post workout with an ambit epoc and running index ?

For Ambits ~~none of it is~~ EPOC is not accessible from Suunto App .
I do get the running index vs vo2max thing, but A3P spec actually lists “Running Performance (Firstbeat)” separately and “EPOC & V02 max values” comes with a “available In Movescount.com”-note. Though it should probably read “est. Vo2” instead as this is what Movescount provides. But thanks for reminder - running performance is another metric present in Movescount but missing from Suunto App

Ambit users got their EPOC values only from Movescount. Well, there is a realtime EPOC app too and it does provide some values, so yeah, theoretically one could also keep track of something EPOCish on a fridge door with PostIt notes.
But realtime EPOC is also well separated in the specs from MC EPOC:
Real time EPOC - ** available as Suunto Apps

Interesting, A3P at suunto.com Euro stores is finally out of stock, so now there’s little less reason to moan about messy spec sheet of a product that is still actively sold Would think it’s somewhat related to transition, but Traverse is still available …

Fenr1r

@margusl said in Movescount EOL - What does this mean for Ambit3 Peak?:

EPOCish on a fridge door with PostIt notes.

Wise words. We often forget the power of writing and temporary adhesive. I find the Waypoint Names index I use with my Spartan keeps peeling off my arm, however. And temporary ink just gets lost in the tattoos.

@margusl said in Movescount EOL - What does this mean for Ambit3 Peak?:

[a] little less reason to moan about messy spec sheet of a product that is still actively sold

'Bout time. Wonder how many who bought from that spec sheet are still under guarantee.

cosme.costa

@margusl said in Movescount EOL - What does this mean for Ambit3 Peak?:

Interesting, A3P at suunto.com Euro stores is finally out of stock, so now there’s little less reason to moan about messy spec sheet of a product that is still actively sold Would think it’s somewhat related to transition, but Traverse is still available …

Well, in Suunto Spain is still available:

And no mention of Movescount in specs, only for route planning, I guess they have updated the data. In fact if you check the the samall pictures under the big watch there is a phone with SA.

PS: With the offer you can get a Smart sensor for less than 21 € (price difference between version with or without Smart sensor)

margusl

@Stefan-Kersting said in Movescount EOL - What does this mean for Ambit3 Peak?:

Maybe I am a little bit old fashioned, but when navigating in the mountains I do that with map and compass. The navigation function is a nice gadget that I use too. But navigating tha old way is more fun.

Oh c’mon… I personally do a lot of orienteering, in purest map & compass form and almost every discipline - city sprints, short/mid/long distance, weekly training events, gatherings, relays, 4/8/24h rogaines. Fair play rules on most of those events forbid the use of GPS assistance (that includes pacing and distance measurements but it’s OK if you configured your watch just to display time and chrono) . And on some of those events carrying GPS equipment (like phones & watches ) is allowed only in sealed bags provided by organizers, they also check the seals after finishing.

But I also enjoy events where organizers are providing GPX track or a list of control coordinates. And you know what sucks? Last minute route changes. Knowing you were able to handle that situation just fine a year or two ago doesn’t help either…

margusl

@cosmecosta said in Movescount EOL - What does this mean for Ambit3 Peak?:

And no mention of Movescount in specs

All features marked with a single asterisk are Movescount features. There’s actually a (broken) tooltip saying that:

<th>EPOC &amp; V02 max values *
<a href="#" data-toggle="tooltip" data-original-title="" title="" class="u-relative s-bold js-tooltip__specstable-no-icon js-tooltip__clickable"></a> <span class="js-tooltip-html-content u-dn"><span class="u-ib u-p-1 s-fg-fff s-bg-333">
* available In Movescount.com</span></span></th>

And all those features marked with double-asterisk are implemented through Suunto Apps ( http://www.movescount.com/apps#sorting=15 ), still very Movescount.

Fenr1r

@margusl Well, at least someone broke the tooltip, I guess … You’d know: is that the best method of editing that webpage, or just the laziest?

Stefan Kersting

@Prenj said in Movescount EOL - What does this mean for Ambit3 Peak?:

The point is we invested some hard earned money in device that makes some stuff we do easier. Suunto is now making it less easy or impossible. Not cool.

You have to see it like this. I bought my SSU 2,5 years ago and I am not so happy with it because Suunto gives i shit in this watch. But I bought the watch for 3700€ and had it round about 912 days, did nearly 1000 workouts. That means it cost med ca. 4 € per day or activity.

If you smoke you spent this money on cigarettes or maybe even more per day. So why not invest this money in you health and I think the math for the ambit is a little bit better.

Fenr1r

@Stefan-Kersting said in Movescount EOL - What does this mean for Ambit3 Peak?:

3700€

Wow. Missed the sales, huh?

sartoric

@Fenr1r said in Movescount EOL - What does this mean for Ambit3 Peak?:

@Stefan-Kersting said in Movescount EOL - What does this mean for Ambit3 Peak?:

3700€

Wow. Missed the sales, huh?

Was it the platinum edition ?

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

just 0.7e per workout.

Add the 1h min wage of a worker = 17e = 17.7e per workout if 1h

Fenr1r

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in Movescount EOL - What does this mean for Ambit3 Peak?:

Add the 1h min wage of a worker

Now I’m confused. Who’s paying that 17.7€? Did the worker not buy his/her own watch (the amortised 0.7€ of the total payment to Suunto)? Is the workout then on company time and therefore a cost on top of the watch provided? Is the worker self-employed and deducting the workout time as a 17€ cost?

I’m missing something here …

Prenj

So for the next purchase of sport watch I should ask how long does the manufacturer guarantees they will not cripple my watch. This is very important for I have to carefully calculate amortization schedule. No more impulse purchases. We’ll see does it pay off to buy 500 € watch every two years, when after that period it gets severely crippled by manufacturer and loses value drastically.

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@Fenr1r I was joking in terms of how someone values a workout. Like time always has to be converted to money and tha’ts what I did. I converted 1h of activity to a cost.

Fenr1r

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos Apologies, man: I got lost in the accounting. Points for dry delivery. Hoist by my own petard. Nice one.

Fenr1r

@Prenj You can always try but I doubt they’ll reply helpfully or on the record. In all seriousness, check the mandatory guarantee law in your jurisdiction which will supercede the manufacturer’s period (and may extend the duration).

Maybe next pick a watch that can be essentially autonomous. By and large un-cripple-able from afar. Syncing, ideally, but allowing file access in a form used so widely outside the narrow sportswatch world that it is far less vulnerable to the plans of a single manufacturer.

But still vulnerable to all the connections outside that other manufacturer’s control. And maybe the data security nominally within it.

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@Fenr1r there are many watches sold out there that are good and opensource.

And web services.

Fenr1r

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos There are. And I’m in no way knocking the quality of web services. I hear good things about … is it SQ? QR? Something like that.

I was offering Prenj a course to minimise the risks of the things that so infuriate him/her now. Each additional connection is another point of vulnerability. MC was no more useful in the field when you didn’t have cell coverage (not Suunto’s doing) than it will be when shut down.

What’s the old saying? “Give me the ability to take responsibility for the bits of my tech solution I can control, the tolerance to endure the vagaries of powers beyond that control and the wisdom to pick something that won’t make me rage pointlessly when it fails one day out of guarantee.”

Stefan Kersting

@Fenr1r haha shit my fault. I meant norwegian crowns. The factor to euro is 1 to 10 when you calculated simple. Watch 370 euro and about 40 cent a day. That’s affordable. The point is: I don’t smoke and can spent the money not smoked use to buy a new watch every second year at last. It’s stupid, I actually don’t want to do it and it’s not sustainable. But that’s another question