S7 roadmap: what are Suunto plans here?

I understand S7 is no S9 and was never meant to be one. I further understand that Suunto’s resources are limited and not every want I or others have will get implemented. Still, if Suunto is reading (and I hope it is, @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos yes?), perhaps they can clarify. At least, let us know if any of the below will be coming to S7 at all.

Still better, an honest roadmap similar to Polar’s for Vantage would be a huge step in persuading many people to part with $499.

Here’s what’s missing for S7 to be an ass kicking sport-oriented smartwatch given the current state of S5/S9 development:

External sensors support: Heart Rate
External sensors support: Footpod
External sensors support: Other (power, cadence, speed)
Sport mode customization
Heart rate, pace, power zones customization
Intensity / workout targets
Intervals (as implemented in Spartan and Sx series, or better)
GPS routes import and guidance
POI in routes
FirstBeat analytics: VO2 Max, fitness age, daily stress/resources, sleep quality, training plan
Native running power support
Multiple watch support (easy swap between S7 and S5/S9)
~~Activity tracking (steps, calories, 24/7 heart rate, etc) synced to Suunto app~~ *
Activity tracking tiles (showing daily steps/calories)

Items in bold are things that would probably be the most sore deal-breakers. At least, they are the things I came across most often when reading people’s comments on various forums.

Community, please vote up!

VO2 Max addition to S9 does show that extra loud voices are heard. So, let’s get extra load

UPDATE 09/01: After evaluating Google Fit on Android for a few days, I think it was stroke of a genius for Suunto to decide to push its data there instead of trying to build out the Suunto app. So, sync into its own app might be considerably less of a priority I thought initially.

jthomi

Huge wishlist! Great work.

Brad_Olwin

@NickK
#1, #2, #3, #13, #14 are all available but not in the Suunto app, other apps offer these ( they will cause potentially a battery hit)
#4, #5 I think is not necessary, the sport modes are well thought out and easy to see, I would likely not customize much and almost all of my modes on the S9 are custom.
#1 The OHR is great, the only reason you would want external is when in cold weather to wear outside of a jacket. Frankly, I have used the S7 for SkiMo and having it on my wrist is not that big a deal.
#6 is somewhat implemented as you have HR zones in the watch so you can see your zones but no zone alarm/target
#7 not targeted for a user that need these, however, I use the S7 for interval running and there is an interval running sport mode that works well and provides the relevant information ( I use the lap button:) as I do for all my interval workouts).
#11 I doubt this will happen and is available in other apps

#12-14 I would love to see, I am not a fan of GoogleFit
#8-9 would be great.

Saketo Nemo

So, a S9 with heatmaps

@Brad_Olwin I think external HR is a must for any non-runner (or a serious runner who just happened to hit the track with S7 on his wrist… Maybe S9 was still charging? ) In fact, if Suunto gave me $1 for every comment I saw that mentioned external HR, I’d be already ordering S7 for free. DCR spent a good hours at CES, per his comment, talking about that to Suunto dev lead. I really hope Suunto doesn’t go Fitbit way and just refuse to implement any sensors.

For my own use, intervals would also be huge because this would allow a semblance of structured workouts. Needless to say, other people may have different priorities.

But I don’t think anything on this list is a big deliverable given it already exists in S9 (hence the question is mainly porting, not developing from scratch) and where S7 is at the moment. Only FirstBeat stuff would probably require licensing and all. Personally, I can live without it. But if S9 story is any indication, I’ll be in minority on that.

@Saketo-Nemo said in S7 roadmap: what are Suunto plans here?:

So, a S9 with heatmaps

I’d say S9 that’s thinner and lighter, with brighter higher-res screen, speaker and microphone, proper notifications, call management, music, online/offline maps, weather, calendar, messaging including typing/voice entry, Google assistant if it lifts your boat, remote camera shutter, and on…

Minus battery life and a good chunk of in-workout functionality. Battery life I can part with. The workout functionality I’d prefer to have back. At least some of it.

fejker

@Brad_Olwin said in S7 roadmap: what are Suunto plans here?:

#7 not targeted for a user that need these, however, I use the S7 for interval running and there is an interval running sport mode that works well and provides the relevant information ( I use the lap button:) as I do for all my interval workouts).

I have read this many times in your posts and am interested at how exactly this works? I have always thought interval workout should be dictated by the device and not the other way around. Am I wrong?
Simple lap presses only mark some period in your workout … which, if you do your intervals the right way, are clearly seen by the jumps and falls in the power/pace/speed/HR graphs anyway without pressing the lap button.
So again, pressing the lap button does not make it an interval capable watch. Sure, you can do the intervals out of memory, but why would you need a $500 watch then.

@fejker said in S7 roadmap: what are Suunto plans here?:

I have read this many times in your posts and am interested at how exactly this works? I have always thought interval workout should be dictated by the device and not the other way around. Am I wrong?

I think what @Brad_Olwin means is that you have a lap button to mark your interval/structured workout periods. You are right though by assuming it falls onto you to execute workout from memory and watch the timer/distance to vary your intensity and/or exercises.

Can we do better? Perhaps. Should we do better? Maybe. That’s the purpose of the list above. I didn’t include structured workouts there even though it sounds like a WearOS smartwatch should have no problem importing stuff from Training Peaks or Final Surge. I kind of feel while S7 would be ideal target for implementing these, I don’t see this happening before the rest of the list is implemented.

fejker

@NickK I know what Brad meant, I have known him for a long time now (on the different forum as well).
As for structured intervals, I wouldn’t hold my breath. People have been complaining for over two years and nothing changed. Hell, we haven’t even gotten rid of some basic data display bugs regarding asc. and dsc. and ski distance and … I won’t go on as there is no point in whining and derailing this thread. Just proving my point that there is no point in making lists like these because Suunto has already made their list of things and the slow rollout timetable - been there, done that.

@fejker said in S7 roadmap: what are Suunto plans here?:

Just proving my point that there is no point in making lists like these because Suunto has already made their list of things

And yet, here we are with VO2 Max on S9. Make a list, make it known, be loud. Not single voice loud. Not dozen voices. But more like a hundred. We won’t get everything we ask for, but we may get some. If I can get external heart rate, intervals, and targets I’ll be already covering a good 50% of workouts I do with S7 alone. Suddenly this becomes a completely different value proposition, even at $499.

fejker

@NickK add power meters, customisable sport mode screens and battery life for at least 15h of real GPS use with navigation (lots of hiking here) and that will be a fair price. That last one with the battery life is a tough one tho.

@fejker said in S7 roadmap: what are Suunto plans here?:

battery life for at least 15h of real GPS use with navigation

That’s what your 3300-based S7 from 2021 holiday season is for. But for it to exist, Suunto needs to get some economy of scale and opportunity cost out of the 3100 here and now.

fejker

@NickK yeah, by that time I and many others will be long gone from the Suunto ecosystem in search for their dream device.

kkalsi

@Brad_Olwin I have now had the S7 for a couple of week and have done various activities and whilst the OHR is good for running - it does not perform well with weight training. So I think 1 is essential really to ensure all sports are covered. By buying an expensive watch - you should not need to install another app necessarily - it should be available in the same ecosystem from Sunnto. I think Polar do a good job here and Sunnto should look at the bar being set elsewhere. For me 5. 10. are also items that I would expect for a competitive offering.

Brad_Olwin

@fejker said in S7 roadmap: what are Suunto plans here?:

@NickK add power meters, customisable sport mode screens and battery life for at least 15h of real GPS use with navigation (lots of hiking here) and that will be a fair price. That last one with the battery life is a tough one tho.

I think it fair to compare the S7 with AW. The S7 has better exercise options than AW IMHO but 15h of GPS for smartwatch is unlikely to happen even in 2021. Although the S7 states 12h GPS that is under the best of circumstances. I think biking can come close to that.

@Brad_Olwin Yes, but… AW has HR support baked in, which makes strength training and many forms of exercise not suitable for OHR, perfectly possible. No third party apps needed. No add-on purchases of $2.99 BLE packages either.

Same goes for footpods. I’m quite impressed with S7 outdoor accuracy, but when I tried to run on treadmill, I had to stop after 2 miles. It was way behind both treadmill reported distance and Stryd-connected Suunto 9, with pace a good minute and a half per mile slower.

Then there’s an issue of perception. AW is hugely successful not because of its sports features but almost despite their shortcomings. Wear OS doesn’t get the benefit of the same well established platform and apps. Runkeeper dropped their app. So did Adidas. Endomondo and Strava haven’t updated in years. Anyone looking for apps can see general stagnation and lack of new development.

For S7 to succeed, it has to overcome the current anemic state of Wear OS. And to do so, it has to really, truly nail one aspect of watch use. Seeing Suunto is a sports company, I’d say it would be natural to assume we are talking sports…

Brad_Olwin

@NickK I have an AW4 and the S7 and tested both side by side for some time. My thoughts:

AW HR is good but I have had better results with S7. I have had AW lose HR
Agreed with apps, the Stryd app for AW can download structured workouts from TP! Wear OS needs to up the game seriously
The GPS battery life on AW and S7 are about dead even for me, I can get 7-10h of trail running on both if I limit the function to tracking my runs.
I am an iOS user so as a smartwatch there is no comparison.
Sports on S7 hands down better than AW4, there really is no comparison, that includes maps, recording, etc.
The display, hard to believe but S7 is better than AW or equivalent, as AW is smaller.

jthomi

Would love to see them both live for comparison, sounds really interesting.

@Brad_Olwin said in S7 roadmap: what are Suunto plans here?:

@NickK I have an AW4 and the S7 and tested both side by side for some time. My thoughts:

AW HR is good but I have had better results with S7. I have had AW lose HR

Agreed with apps, the Stryd app for AW can download structured workouts from TP! Wear OS needs to up the game seriously

The GPS battery life on AW and S7 are about dead even for me, I can get 7-10h of trail running on both if I limit the function to tracking my runs.

I am an iOS user so as a smartwatch there is no comparison.

Sports on S7 hands down better than AW4, there really is no comparison, that includes maps, recording, etc.

The display, hard to believe but S7 is better than AW or equivalent, as AW is smaller.

Manuel Silvestri

@NickK It’s a good list of improvements that are needed in a sportwatch like S7. I switched from Fenix 5 to S7 just a few days ago, but some features not already present in S7 should become a standard for Suunto watches. The major I miss are customizable trainings with interval training, for which I would like to have the possibility to create them in the app (setting different distances and recovery time) and then send to the watch; the other is the count reps in the weightlifting training with the load for each exercise. Without this last feature the watch records only the heart rate…and what about the recovery time between each sets? I don’t understand why Suunto is still missing the basics, despite the watch has great potentialities!

@Manuel-Silvestri said in S7 roadmap: what are Suunto plans here?:

the other is the count reps in the weightlifting training with the load for each exercise. Without this last feature the watch records only the heart rate…and what about the recovery time between each sets?

Interesting. I think you are the first person for whom Garmin’s rep count works I tried it multiple times, across different watches, and it always ended up being more of a miss than a hit to me. Keeping track of work vs rest though was cool. Unfortunately, I doubt we gonna see anything like this in Suunto universe. Maybe some dev would build an app for Wear OS to do something like that.