Reviews

wmichi

@tomasbartko “Some people choose to sleep without sleep stage tracking”. Explorers don’t need this fancy stuff in their tents on a mountain.

But you’re right, that’s probably just marketing to differentiate the products. On the other hand, I could be wrong. Who knows.

@wmichi well yeah, my life will be still the same, with or without it. But I am a curious person, so I would like to understand why… It’s offtopic anyway so I am quiet now

stromdiddily

@wmichi said in Reviews:

@tomasbartko “Some people choose to sleep without sleep stage tracking”.

That is freaking hilarious

Marius Jacobsen Eggerud

@Patrick-Löffler-0 You can zoom out to 2km on the maps

MKPotts

@Tieutieu said in Reviews:

@duffman19 said in Reviews:

Here it is - https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2023/11/suunto-race-amoled-in-depth-review.html

I don’t really get why he says that the SR is “much better” than the SV, pointing news features that will arrive (most of them) also on SV.
Except the amoled and rotative crown, there is not much differences.

After reading the review, my view is that it’s likely because:

Ray appears to have a preference for Amoled screens and believes the market is going in that direction. Data on how the sales ratios of Epix/Fenix, 965/955 etc are evolving would support or refute that. I doubt Garmin would be pushing so heavily into Amoled if the unit sales data (and possibly margins) weren’t favourable.
The Vertical is 40-50% more expensive (at least in the UK it is). I know that’s almost certainly because of manufacturing location but I doubt most people will be willing to pay up to £$€250 more for made in Finland.
There may also be an element of this being the “best” (most featured) Suunto watch in terms of capability when first released, rather than what it evolves into further down the line.

Ray does clearly acknowledge that nearly all of the updates will come to the Vertical. Having been reading his articles for a few years, I’ve found him one of the best at covering new feature releases for existing watches, not just new watch launches.

If I was upgrading my S9PP, I’d most likely get the Vertical because battery life is a priority for me. But if I was no longer running 100hr+ ultramarathons, I’d probably get the Race.

Mauerwegler

@wmichi said in Reviews:

@tomasbartko “Some people choose to sleep without sleep stage tracking”. Explorers don’t need this fancy stuff in their tents on a mountain.

But you’re right, that’s probably just marketing to differentiate the products. On the other hand, I could be wrong. Who knows.

I don‘t get that either. If you asked me what Suunto‘s flagship is I‘d answer „Vertical“. Not the Race. The Vertical should be on par with the Race if hardware permits. The Vertical should not artificially be demoted so short after its launch. These marketing moves reduce my trust. But I‘ve had this issue before when I was looking for a Suunto Ambit and then for a Spartan: there are subtle differences, I perceived finding the right model as being somewhat painful to be honest (and I never bought an Ambit because of the Peak/Vertical/Sport „mess“ (my perception back then)). At least sapphire glass is now more or less standard but one still has to watch out for small things.

Egika

@MKPotts Vertical is to a big part more expensive than Race, because MIP screens are more expensive than AMOLED.
Garmin’s pricing of making AMOLED devices more expensive is a pure marketing descision. Cost based pricing would make them cheaper - as we see it with the Suunto Race.
Made in China adds to this but does not cover all the cost difference.

Egika

@Tieutieu said in Reviews:

@v-sacre said in Reviews:

@Tieutieu Based on DC table about features contained for both models, Vertical won’t have:

running estimate and HR run threshold

sleep stages and naps

But I really don’t know on what assumption DC made this table…

Except a “marketing” decision, I also don’t know what hardware limitation would avoid to have this on the SV.

Except a licensing limitation. Or something else. It is always easy to draw conclusions without knowing the behind-the-scenes…

Tieutieu

@Egika said in Reviews:

@Tieutieu said in Reviews:

@v-sacre said in Reviews:

@Tieutieu Based on DC table about features contained for both models, Vertical won’t have:

running estimate and HR run threshold

sleep stages and naps

But I really don’t know on what assumption DC made this table…

Except a “marketing” decision, I also don’t know what hardware limitation would avoid to have this on the SV.

Except a licensing limitation. Or something else. It is always easy to draw conclusions without knowing the behind-the-scenes…

Of course, you’re right. Let’s say it’s my « hopes » !

wmichi

@Egika Correct, it’s all just speculation.

Mauerwegler

@Egika said in Reviews:

@Tieutieu said in Reviews:

@v-sacre said in Reviews:

@Tieutieu Based on DC table about features contained for both models, Vertical won’t have:

running estimate and HR run threshold

sleep stages and naps

But I really don’t know on what assumption DC made this table…

Except a “marketing” decision, I also don’t know what hardware limitation would avoid to have this on the SV.

Except a licensing limitation. Or something else. It is always easy to draw conclusions without knowing the behind-the-scenes…

Yes, it is not necessarily the marketing‘s „fault“. But licensing? On the most expensive model? When they move away from FirstBeat algorithms? When the SV and the SR are part of the same technical platform? Don‘t get me wrong, it is good that you pointed out that „we don‘t know“, but it looks like an odd and arbitrary decision to me.

Egika

@Mauerwegler said in Reviews:

Don‘t get me wrong, it is good that you pointed out that „we don‘t know“, but it looks like an odd and arbitrary decision to me.

Be assured that there are no arbitrary decisions in this respect. Since delivering whatever solution will be chosen, needs programming and testing, a unified solution would be preferred from this perspective.
So to deviate from that, requires substantial reasoning.

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

Let me help on some decisions .

Previously Vo2max was calculated via FirstBeat license. Thats no longer the case already with Race. Its Suunto own algo.
As you already know Race has some new features such as Race estimations and sleep stages. Those come from some licenses with other providers.
Suunto atm is at the stage that is developing / evaluating all in house (or at least wants to).

So, its a matter of internal (and external fieldtesting, public surveys) evaluation. So to give an example:

Suunto has developed Running marathon estimations. They work well. They benchmark those against FB , GoMore and other providers. If the result is good they will flip the switch to their own. Thats a no brainer. But when they want to release a model with those features, ie the Race , on launch they can go with whatever provider works better and pay the price to them (per unit usually).

You as users / consumers should keep in mind that Suunto is trying to provide a good solution to increase the consumer satisfaction based on factors such as launch timing, license expiration etc.

To be specific on the following update for the Vertical for example, the resources will be own algo. Same most probably is for running stats estimations (marathon time etc). That means that Suunto will have 2 different algos out there (2 watches with different algos ) and at some point 1 of the 2 algos will align to the best result.

To be honest the running time estimations (marathon etc) work better for me on the tests with SV with the Suunto in house algos than to what Race is using. That doesn’t mean it works better for all.

Bottomline, things will get aligned , but needs time.