HRV and related metrics from PP?
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@Brad_Olwin said in HRV and related metrics from PP?:
[…] I had a Garmin Epix 2 for 8 months and did not find the Training Readiness or the status of my training very helpful. If I am being honest it was more of a detriment than help.
UphillAthlete had a good article on HRV: https://uphillathlete.com/aerobic-training/why-we-stopped-relying-on-hrv-apps/
It’s more experiential/anecdotal judgement, but something that I can appreciate.
I admit this thread is more about displaying HRV instead of viability of HRV for forecasting training readiness…
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@Brad_Olwin While I accept your argument, I believe there is some subjectivity and a person’s expertise to assess how useful these metrics are. I feel they are a good starter for a beginner to think about physiology and other aspects that impact training. However, from a competitive standpoint it would be a bad move by Suunto to ignore this and other related metrics. Probably an extreme example, but its akin to how another infamous Finnish company dismissed Apple in the early days of the iPhone, and look where it got them. And this doesn’t have to be a fight for feature-count (which, from the looks of things, Wahoo seems to be doing with the Rival); somewhere Polar has been quite successful.
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@altcmd After using a Garmin and an Apple Watch as well as Resources on the Suunto, I can say that they mostly disagree with each other. My concern is not that using HRV is a problem, it is more complicated than that.
First, the data have to be interpreted to tell the user something informative and this is the problem. I think it is far more of a problem for the beginner than an experienced athlete as a beginner will rely on what they are told.
Thanks @Umer-Javed, I read that article a long time ago and it basically mirrors my own experience. There are workouts I do where on the second workout on the second day I will feel terrible. My watch would tell me not to workout hard when that was the entire purpose.
My experience with Garmin was the worst where there is a set duration of time at specific intensities (anaerobic, aerobic, easy, etc.) and my training was typically unproductive according to Garmin. A beginner would stick to the recommendations believing they were right.
Another example with an Apple Watch HRV app told me repeatedly to go easy when I was tapering for a race (when I feel my best) and then one day after setting a 50k PR tells me I am race ready (I certainly did not feel race ready having raced the day before).So in the end I have a very negative opinion of these and have tested many of them. I appreciate that Suunto has not caved in and integrated a suggestion for training. I do not believe there is any easy way to judge recovery and I am much happier to rely on my own experience. For individuals that want to begin training in earnest and do not want to get hurt the best possible advice I can give is run with a group that has experience or hire a coach. I agree with the conclusions of the Uphill Athlete article and my own experience mirrors their conclusions.
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@Brad_Olwin I understand that your experience with Garmin or the like has been poor but in my experience with at least Garmin HRV has correlated well with Oura, tested over 4 months with Suunto being the outlier in consistent poor data. I don’t particularly care about suggested workouts but the synthesis of how load and readiness is made is at least well constructed by Garmin, or Firstbeat shall we say. Plus going by feel is ok but then we should also make better use of science around PA. We could ignore this space all together but the reality of the market is such that these metrics will or has become mainstay and will further make Suunto an outlier.
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@altcmd I use Oura and HRV4Training, but nothing works as good as my feeling. Usually Oura tells me I’m doing great and should challenge myself, even if I’m in bed sick with fever. Covid booster? Fever and pain, Oura tells me I’m doing great. Everything always tell me I’m doing great honestly, maybe I’m great.
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@altcmd For those of you interested in a metric to tell you your training load. This is worth listening to….perfect timing.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/koopcast/id1489494447?i=1000587345880 -
@altcmd I disagree with what you said at least with our current metrics and understanding. Listen to the podcast I shared the link for.
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@Brad_Olwin Will do. Thanks!
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@altcmd I want to be clear, I think objective metrics(HRV and others) can tell us recovery status but I don’t think we understand enough about how our physiology is integrated at this time.
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@Brad_Olwin I don’t think its about whether we agree or not, but where the general market is. And I guess the only way one can establish traction on whether a data-heavy, questionable accuracy (Garmin) vs a data-lite (Suunto) approach works is through the bottom-line. Curious how it evolves - interesting times indeed!
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