Treadmill Distance Accuracy

zhang965

@James-Howes said in Treadmill Distance Accuracy:

Re: Suunto 7 Treadmill Distance Bug

I use my S7 for tracking my walking primarily, that said to improve my general health I’ve downloaded a Couch to 5k app and have been doing some treadmill work as I’d like to be able to run 5k.

I found the above topic which was obviously quite old, but very relevant in terms of the distance readings of the watch being overestimated by 20% or more.

Does anyone have any answers other than editing each run in the SA afterwards? A pain but not insurmountable. That thread mentions doing a “real” run with GPS to calibrate to your step length - does that make a difference to this issue does any one know?

Thank you.

Hello James,

I don’t sue S7 but I’m sharing my experience with you.

I run on treadmill for my vo2max test in one lab, and the final distance is the same on my s9b. (As I run every week, I suppose my run is calibrated)

So if you never do a real run with gps, I’d suggest you do one and re test on treadmill, anyway the distance on treadmill is calculated by your watch so it’s not 100% accurate.

Or the 20% distance is not overestimated, it’s just … based on your dog’s capacity lol.

Say Hello to your dogs.

ChrisA

@James-Howes in my experience with Suunto 9s and 5s I had both - too long and too short distances. It rarely matches. I ran with both watches outdoors at the same pace as indoors and they’re sure calibrated, but it doesn’t seem to help much on correct treadmill distances. As you said, you can correct the distance afterwards, but at least in the watch it leads to lower or higher VO2 max estimation since that seems not to be synced “back” from the app. But since the S7 has no VO2 max that is not a problem )

Ketoohs

Every Suunto (currently 9p)watch has been terrible with treadmill running over or under estimating pace by a mile.

It does not matter if I run 13kmh or 8kmh the result is almost always identical and it largely depends on the last run I did outside. If the last run was a 4:30 tempo run then even if I run 8kmh on treadmill the watch shows a tempo around 5:00.

If the last run outside was a recovery run, even if I do intervals on a treadmill the pace is from 5:30 to sometimes 6:00+.

I wish there was more energy that was put into getting this more accurate (but to be fair don’t know how that would be done (for steady runs on a treadmill you could input tempo into the watch before you start the exercise).

I correct the distance in SA and TP after I finish, but Strava does not allow it, so the difference in km over the year between systems keeps growing.

quattrojames

@zhang965 said in Treadmill Distance Accuracy:

Or the 20% distance is not overestimated, it’s just … based on your dog’s capacity lol.

Running on a treadmill is hard enough, thankfully I don’t have them on there with me!

@Ketoohs I’d even say every watch has that issue since it can only measure by step/ arm movement.
I tested it with my fenix and with an Apple Watch. If you make smaller steps the pace will go up and vice versa. Garmin for example offers to calibrate the run after you’re done but it’s nothing different than changing it afterwards manually.
What could help is a pod or the Runn sensor. As far as I see it Runn does not work with Suunto.

pilleus

@lessthanmore said in Treadmill Distance Accuracy:

As far as I see it Runn does not work with Suunto.

Runn is working with Suunto. Even with the S7, if you use SportyGo. But not with the S7 and the Suunto app.

Danny Labrana

@Ketoohs said in Treadmill Distance Accuracy:

I correct the distance in SA and TP after I finish, but Strava does not allow it, so the difference in km over the year between systems keeps growing.

Hi. Just a quick note to inform you that you CAN correct the distance in Strava too. To do so you need the 3rd party app called GOTOES (gotoes dot org, for the website). Initially, that application has been designed to combine different activities in one single activity. The “lite” version does not offer the ability to modify distances, but if you donate (watever you want) to the application’s developer, can edit the distance in the app, and seamlessly synchronize it with Strava. I discovered this app directly on Strava’s online support. Works perfectly and I’m using it for treadmill activities.

quattrojames

I had 4.53k on the watch vs 3.5k on the treadmill.

Adjusted on the app but its ruined my stats.

pilleus

I have a Spartan Ultra, a S7 and a S9B. None of these watches are able to show the correct distance on a treadmill. Calibrated with GPS or not, it’s no difference. The distance is about 25 to 30 % away from the running distance.

Therefore and because of having the intervals shown in the Suunto app I decided to buy a Runn treadmill sensor and I recommend it to people who are using a treadmill. No more problems, distance, pace, cadence are okay and no manual correction after the training in different apps or websites.

By the way, a Fenix 6X Pro, a Huawei Watch GT Runner and a cheap Casio GBA900 are spot on with the running distance on the treadmill after the first calibration (no GPS needed).

A picture attached. Intervals on the treadmill shown in the Suunto app (the little spikes in the pace show that the belt of the treadmill needs some tightening).

pilleus

@Danny-Labrana said in Treadmill Distance Accuracy:

To do so you need the 3rd party app called GOTOES

Garmin, Huawei, Amazfit give you the option to adjust the distance on the watch after the training and before syncing it to the app. So all other apps and websites (Strava and others) have the correct distance out of the box.

Why is there no option in Suunto watches?

@pilleus Garmin let’s you calibrate after a run but the distance synced to Strava is the original (wrong) one.
There are a lot of topics on Garmin’s forum

ChrisA

@pilleus I second that, having had very good results with Garmin, Huawei and Amazfit and also with Polar watches (which don’t offer the possibility to adjust the distance after running, but are always very close to the actual distance). My son’s Apple watches ate also quite good. No idea why Suunto is not good at treadmill distances…

pilleus

@lessthanmore okay, I never synced from GarminConnect to Strava. And since I use a Raspberry Pi with a linereader and ANT+ dongle to make my old treadmill smart, the distance on the Garmin Fenix 6X Pro is equal to the Runn sensor and the Suunto watches. There is always an option …

pilleus

And no watch out there can show the data in the detailled view (pace, cadence) of the Runn treadmill sensor or the DIY solution with the Raspberry Pi and Ant+ (I use it with the Garmin Fenix 6X to have a comparison with the professional Runn).

Here two screenshots, one out of the Suunto app (Runn data), the other out of GarminConnect Mobile (RaspberryPi data).

Andi Buzer

@pilleus does Suunto also show the incline values received from the runn ?

pilleus

@Andi-Buzer no, the Runn is connected as a foot pod and no incline is shown on the watch. I never found a data field which could read the incline on my Suunto watches.

Zwift can do it.

Garmin has an app to show all Runn data.

pilleus

I asked at NPE support/contact site to add a SuuntoPlus app for Runn treadmill sensor, as it is available for Garmin’s IQ Store.

With the Fenix 6X Pro I have a data field for Runn, which shows incline, decline (in %) and ascent, descent (in m) one after the other (every two or three seconds). In the summary of the treadmill workout in GarminConnect there is a graph for incline/decline and the total ascent/descent of the workout.

I hope that NPE will read it …

pilleus

Okay, I found a detailled explanation of how a Runn treadmill sensor is working.

“In order to get speed/distance/cadence/gain/incline data from the Runn, the watch and/or app needs to support the Stride Base Speed & Distance (SPD) ANT+ profile.”

https://npe-inc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360038509212-Is-Runn-compatible-with-Garmin-watches-

I hope NPE will answer my request in the way, that the SPD profile is also available via BLE to have all the data on Suunto watches too.

isazi

@pilleus S+ apps can connect to BLE devices, and if the Runn has a way to broadcast ascent/incline in their BLE messages it will be in theory possible to have such data on Suunto watches. If they do not add the information in their broadcast, then yes it is difficult to do it.

pilleus

@pilleus said in Treadmill Distance Accuracy:

I hope NPE will answer my request in the way, that the SPD profile is also available via BLE to have all the data on Suunto watches too.

Got an email from NPE today. The team will discuss it in the next meeting.