Suunto 7 Successor

olymay

@dmytro I may be wrong, but using in house factories to make watches will up the cost (economy of scale etc).

As the S7 is made in China and uses mostly off the shelf hardware, this should bring the costs down significantly.

The main expenses to Suunto would be in the design and the software (which with regards to the current S7 are simply incredible!)

I’m not against paying more for a Suunto 7 replacement, as it is clearly a step up from a typical WearOS watch (for example a fragile Fossil that breaks simply by charging it!).

Right now, even the most expensive Samsung Galaxy Watch 4 Classic 4G (46mm) costs £409.
Samsung are a well known brand in the smartwatch game and are also known for being expensive. (it is also the only device running WearOS 3 so is charging a premium for that right now).

The most expensive Fossil Gen 6 is £299.

If the S7 successor came in around the £300 price point it has a very real change of becoming a best seller.

Google tried to sell their Pixels at a premium price thinking that customers associate high price with high quality. They do, but only to a point. As a result, they never sold very well.
Their current Pixel 6 is a premium phone that competes with the best of the best, yet undercuts all others of similar spec. And surprise surprise it’s the best selling Google phone ever and has stolen back a chink of market share (yes it has a long way to go to sell as many as Apple and Samsung, but it’s a start).

Suunto could (and I think needs to) do the same. Premium top end hardware with class leading fitness software at a competitive price = big sales.

(again, all my opinion. but i have been following the tech industry for decades and have a fair bit of confidence in what i say)

Egika

@olymay

Premium top end hardware with class leading software at a competitive price

I think you can sell everything in big numbers if you follow this advice. Everything.

olymay

@egika the SD 3100 was launched in 2018.

Four years old in the smartwatch world is extremely outdated.

And I agree that whilst it is still running well (my S7 still runs well and better than the day I bought it), if they want to attract new customers and sell new hardware (and therefore make money) then new hardware is a must.

The amin problem with outdated hardware (in smartwatch and smartphone) is firmware and security updates.

The S7 hasn’t received a firmware update since April 2021 and running security patch 1 July 2021.
Would any of us run a PC without up to date antivirus? Why would we run a smartwatch/smartphone without up to date security patch? (I know it’s not exactly the same, but it’s close enough).
I won’t let any of my family run a smartphone that is beyond it’s security update lifespan (most of the time they get my old phones as I update pretty quickly )

The average smartphone is replaced every 2-3 years (more often with enthusiasts like me) and smartwatches are pretty similar.

olymay

@egika said in Suunto 7 Successor:

@olymay

Premium top end hardware with class leading software at a competitive price

I think you can sell everything in big numbers if you follow this advice. Everything.

The price just needs to be competitive, it doesn’t have to be budget or run at a loss.

(although sometimes running at a loss work well. Sony sell PlayStations at a loss and recoup the money from games sold, it’s genius!)

@olymay said in Suunto 7 Successor:

Four years old in the smartwatch world is extremely outdated.

True, but I’d really rather wear an old watch and keep getting updates for several years (I’m also willing to pay for a major upgrade, of course!!!).

olymay

@g-q said in Suunto 7 Successor:

@olymay said in Suunto 7 Successor:

Four years old in the smartwatch world is extremely outdated.

True, but I’d really rather wear an old watch and keep getting updates for several years (I’m also willing to pay for a major upgrade, of course!!!).

This is exactly my point with the current S7, it hasn’t received a security update since July 2021.

Smartwatches and smartphones are very different to regular sports watches (other Suunto, Garmin, Coros, etc) in that the hardware and software evolves much faster. Most customers do not keep them more than 2-3 years, so why should the companies spend time and money supporting devices that aren’t used by many?
(one could argue that if they were supported for longer then they would be used for longer which is true to a point.)

Also, battery life plays a big part in device upgrades. Li-ion batteries have a finite shelf life and after a few years there is a noticeable drop off in capacity.
Most of use can put up with a certain amount of that with a phone as it’s easy to top it up or charge overnight.
But with a watch, I’m sure we’d all like it to last longer to avoid having top it up every day.

All in all, the current S7 is great, but with no firmware updates in 10 months, no security updates in 7 months, no support for WearOS 3, etc… it is definitely in the twilight of it’s lifespan.

With the new chip announced by Qualcomm this could be the perfect opportunity for Suunto to lunch back into the WearOS market and (with an appropriate marketing strategy) actually take the industry by storm.

Or, they will launch on old (4100) hardware, overpriced, and be doomed to failure, with only a few hardcore fans buying (me included).

(or worst of all, they abandon WearOS completely )

@olymay said in Suunto 7 Successor:

but with no firmware updates in 10 months, no security updates in 7 months

I still naively think that this wait is somehow related to the acquisition of Suunto so I still hope they release something cool sooner or later

olymay

@g-q said in Suunto 7 Successor:

@olymay said in Suunto 7 Successor:

but with no firmware updates in 10 months, no security updates in 7 months

I still naively think that this wait is somehow related to the acquisition of Suunto so I still hope they release something cool sooner or later

I want to believe this, I really do. I’m a very hopeful and optimistic person, so I won’t rule anything out.

But deep down I can’t help but feel the S7 is dead to Suunto

Aleksander H

@egika said in Suunto 7 Successor:

the 7 is made in China…

People always forget that hardware is only part of the cost. Software is often very expensive to develop. Especially when development of said software continues after release of the hardware. We’re paying for hardware, software and everything else that surrounds the development of the product (HR for instance).

Yes, other companies have these costs, but many other companies stop caring about the software on their device once they launch, or they sell so many the don’t need as high a margin per device (Samsung for instance).

A Suunto 7 without Suunto apps (just vanilla Wear OS) would probably be quite a bit cheaper for Suunto to produce.

Aleksander H

@aleksander-h and I see now that others raised the same point. I forgot to refresh the page before answering

olymay

@aleksander-h said in Suunto 7 Successor:

@egika said in Suunto 7 Successor:

the 7 is made in China…

People always forget that hardware is only part of the cost. Software is often very expensive to develop. Especially when development of said software continues after release of the hardware. We’re paying for hardware, software and everything else that surrounds the development of the product (HR for instance).

Yes, other companies have these costs, but many other companies stop caring about the software on their device once they launch, or they sell so many the don’t need as high a margin per device (Samsung for instance).

A Suunto 7 without Suunto apps (just vanilla Wear OS) would probably be quite a bit cheaper for Suunto to produce.

As Suunto have already developed the Suunto app for WearOS, the initial cost has been spent (and hopefully recouped). AS you mention there are ongoing costs of support and continued development (which from my experience Suunto do VERY well!) but these would surely be offset by device sales?

Aleksander H

@olymay yeah, my post was based on the cost of the device when they were still pushing updates. I actually have no idea what it sells for right now.

That said, although they aren’t pushing updates to the watch, they are pushing updates to the phone app. Features that often give our watch more value, such as the TP metrics. So even now, I’d say that my argument still holds some value

olymay

@aleksander-h agreed, I love the Suunto app on my phone and the fact it gets regular updates is fantastic!

However this app applies to all watches, not just the S7. And I’m pretty certain (although I haven’t tried it) that with a chest HR strap the phone app could be use don it’s own without even buying a Suunto watch.

trinitao

@olymay said in Suunto 7 Successor:

But deep down I can’t help but feel the S7 is dead to Suunto

I put some hope in the new Chinese owners. As far as I know the Asian market is pretty tech-friendly and therefore should be more interested in a real smartwatch than a sports watch with proprietary OS. But maybe that’s just the hope speaking out of me.

Aleksander H

@trinitao new company already sells a bunch of watches with a proprietary OS. Very curious to see if things change with new owner.

isazi

@aleksander-h the sale to the new owner is not complete yet, probably it will be complete before summer.

Aleksander H

@isazi said in Suunto 7 Successor:

@aleksander-h the sale to the new owner is not complete yet, probably it will be complete before summer.

Oh, right. Thanks for the correction

L C

Great analyses. Today, Fossil announced they would not make any more Wear OS watches and planned to exit the market immediately.

The last Fossil Wear OS watch was released in 2021.

Google made a poor decision by forcing Wear 3.0 to be a Google and Samsung hardware duopoly